Terrazzo flooring in supermarkets

[Mike Mike]

Does anyone know how terrazzo is adhered to the substrate in supermarket builds? I'm curious to know how it is laid (I know about the grinding afterwards, but have never seen, or been able to find out any info on the initial fixing).

All I have seen is a short video repairing some damaged tiles Repairing Terrazzo Floor Tiles - YouTube where he appears to have dug up half the floor screed trying to get the tiles out.

I saw a thread from someone who was owed money by a large contractor and who said he'd run a small gang of four doing terrazzo and he implied they usually knocked out around 400 m2 a day (but I can't remember who it was).

So I'm curious what they laid onto (freshly poured screed, or dried) and what they adhere with (adhesive or direct to the screed, as this repair seems to be doing).

Thanks in advance!

 

[barrytiler]

used to be cement slurry to bond to the concrete subfloor, then semi dry sand/cement and then cement slurry the backs of the terrazzo , but this was years ago

 

[Spud]

as barry says it is mortar bedded with semidry slurry bonds to the floor and back of the tile

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

not sure now, as a lot of resin/terrazzo is used, and this may-be a diff fixing -method ........are there any terrazzo-guys on the forum?

 

[Gazzer]

Yeah we have this one View Profile: GC-Terrazzo - tilersforums.com | Tiling Forum | Wall Tiling Forum | Floor Tiling Forum | Tile Forums | Tilers Forum

Maybe PM him.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

As Gary and Barry, ( sounds like a double act):lol: Slurry bond to sub-floor, semi-dry,then slurry bond to back of tile. Each tile fixed individual to a tingle line.

 

[Mike Mike]

How can a four man team lay 400m2 in a day if that's the fixing method???? Seems like it must be a slooooooooooow method, as per the video in my first post on this thread?????

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

I worked along side some of the best terrazzo men in my time, and that vid was spot on , as far as the fixing method was concerned, but it was a patch up job. A good terrazzo man can lay 100m2 per day, every day, a good labourer is essential imo. The method is the same on a new floor. A leg is brought from the first course,laid perfectly straight and level, then a tingle line is fixed, so you repeat again and again. The method is tried and tested, as we have said the subfloor is given a slurry bond coat, ( traditionally pure portland cement) then semi-dry mix 4:1 sand and cement. then either a slurry bond over the semi-dry mix, or the back of the tile brushed with slurry.

All the terrazzo men I know never kneel down, but fix from a standing position.The old polishing machines were called Ellis, the newer ones are Terrco's. The polishers job is made easy or hard by the skill of the fixer. Hope I don't get a lashing from the terrazzo lads who are more up to date than me.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

well i just watched the film mike, it's funny how you can be irritated by other peoples working way's , when he was laying the two tile section it was all dusty/dry he splashed a bit of cement slurry in from a jug then the screed, he should have thoroughly cleaned out then wet the hole with a jug of water and left it to soak -in then slurry/screed as this would have given a much stronger bond, but they where realy relying on the resin grout to set the repairs for speed IMO

 

[Pebbs]

I started out on Terrazzo, and was taught by an old Italian, we still do it from time to time, drag the ancient Ellis machine out and get cracking on it. Phil is absolutely 100% spot on with what he wrote. Things haven't changed much since then, the old methods are still the best imo. We do more pre-cast terrazzo nowdays, its still a labour intensive operation though. In-situ terrazzo has got to rate as one of the most vile jobs around, dust flying every which way, and back breaking work to boot. These lads that travel around doing it day in and day out have my utmost respect, its a dying skill which is a shame as a good terrazzo will outlive any ceramic or porcelain that's put down. Don't talk to me about resin terrazzo, I hate the stuff, you cant beat the real thing.

Pebbs

 

[doug boardley]

As Gary and Barry, ( sounds like a double act):lol: Slurry bond to sub-floor, semi-dry,then slurry bond to back of tile. Each tile fixed individual to a tingle line.

did you use a 10 bob note to steady your tingle Phil?:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Pebbs]

Phil you should be careful...in my experience a tingle can sometimes lead to a mingle!

Pebbs

 

[Mike Mike]

well i just watched the film mike, it's funny how you can be irritated by other peoples working way's , when he was laying the two tile section it was all dusty/dry he splashed a bit of cement slurry in from a jug then the screed, he should have thoroughly cleaned out then wet the hole with a jug of water and left it to soak -in then slurry/screed as this would have given a much stronger bond, but they where realy relying on the resin grout to set the repairs for speed IMO

I thought the same thing Tom, it all looked very messy and very hit and miss to me. It also said "this floor will be in use in a couple of hours". Well, the cement / screed bond wouldn't have gone off in a couple of hours, so they must be relying on the resin grout bond to hold the plates firm.

 

[Mike Mike]

I worked along side some of the best terrazzo men in my time, and that vid was spot on , as far as the fixing method was concerned, but it was a patch up job. A good terrazzo man can lay 100m2 per day, every day, a good labourer is essential imo. The method is the same on a new floor. A leg is brought from the first course,laid perfectly straight and level, then a tingle line is fixed, so you repeat again and again. The method is tried and tested, as we have said the subfloor is given a slurry bond coat, ( traditionally pure portland cement) then semi-dry mix 4:1 sand and cement. then either a slurry bond over the semi-dry mix, or the back of the tile brushed with slurry.

All the terrazzo men I know never kneel down, but fix from a standing position.The old polishing machines were called Ellis, the newer ones are Terrco's. The polishers job is made easy or hard by the skill of the fixer. Hope I don't get a lashing from the terrazzo lads who are more up to date than me.

Thanks Phil. I wish I could find a video showing how they do it on a large scale and at real speed (as opposed to just a repair). I assume that the chap in the clip had dug out half the screed with his pneumatic drill, and that when laying a whole terrazzo floor from afresh it is not required to put down 2 - 3 cms of semi dry sand and cement and then tap each tile with a mallet, lift, add more screed, lay again and tap again? Otherwise I cannot see how they can get a good work rate, or ensure a level floor, if they are putting down thick screed on every row???

Also, fixing from a standing position must be incredibly hard on the lower back and knees after a while???

It definitely looks like a very skilfull trade.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

did you use a 10 bob note to steady your tingle Phil?:smilewinkgrin:

Nah to tight Doug, but you could go out on a friday, night buy 20 ****, get blind drunk, and still have change from a ten bob note (50p):lol:

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Phil you should be careful...in my experience a tingle can sometimes lead to a mingle!

Pebbs

Ooh I'm blushing now Lynn.:drool5::lol:

 

[tony4173]

Phil pretty much has it spot on here.I used to work for the biggest terrazzo company in the country as a labourer for terrazzo men. There were 2 labourers to 1 tiler because that is how physically hard the job is.

The tiler would set out the job with the help of a site engineer to get the correct levels and pattern set out.Then it was back breaking work all day.

If we didn't have ready screed mix we would have 1 labourer on the mixer (mixing screed all day) and 1 labourer and 1 tiler on the "line". The concrete floor was covered in a mixture of Bal Bond and water and swept all over with a brush to keep the floor wet but not saturated.
The mixing labourer would wheel barrow the screed in piles as you were working backwards. The other labourer would be on the "shovel" shoveling the screed down from 1 end to the other spreading the screed bed for the tiler.The tile line would be about 40 tiles long (300mm tiles)

The tiler used a screed lat to get the perfect bed for laying the tiles, and spread from one end to the other behind the labourer shoveling in.
We had big blue tubs which we mixed 8 buckets of water to 4 bags of cement (slurry) stirred with a mixing paddle. The labourer took half a bucket of the slurry and poured it along the screed bed from one end to the other. He would then put the tiles down for the tiler to tap down with a rubber mallett. The tiler used a string line like brickies do to get the tiles levelish, some tilers used very very strong sea fishing line as the string lines had a habit of snapping when they got wet.

The grouting we mixed the same way as the slurry 2 buckets of water to 1 bag of "white" cement depending on how big the area is. Big squeegies were used like brushes to spread the grout and fill the joints and this was done through out the day until the joints were full.

You would then have your polishers who did the grinding and polishing with terco machines to get a glass like finish.
As far as doing 400 meters a day ? nah i don't think so matey. more like between 150 and 200 meters a day with out any hold ups on site.

All in all its a back breaking very physically demanding job and warrants more money than the workers get. We got payed 60% tiler 40% labourer of the total price work.