Tile water absorbtion experiment

[Canyondust]

That surprises me. Would that not be based on the grout performance?
One assumes not all grouts are equal ?

I could tile some plaster board with 4 squares of wall tile, grout and then leave a wet sponge on top (all horizontal). Each day top the sponge up and take moisture measurements from the rear.

I edited the previous post to say the tray tiles are marble 50 x 50 (I think)

 

[Andy Allen]

Ahhh so your an engineer, right. ?

 

[LM]

I wonder what Billy Connelly would say

 

[Canyondust]

Engineer / scientist

I recall looking at BAL and Mapei the datasheets had very little info. I did speak to a 'technical' guy at Mapei as I was interested in grout permeability but as I can't remember any data I am guessing I got know where. I did set some Mapei ultracolour (what I put on the floor) in a plastic jam jar sized pot. Then removing the thick disc and seeing how long it would take water to pass through. I can't really remember but I think the whole disc darkened quickly.

 

[John Benton]

Engineer / scientist

I recall looking at BAL and Mapei the datasheets had very little info. I did speak to a 'technical' guy at Mapei as I was interested in grout permeability but as I can't remember any data I am guessing I got know where. I did set some Mapei ultracolour (what I put on the floor) in a plastic jam jar sized pot. Then removing the thick disc and seeing how long it would take water to pass through. I can't really remember but I think the whole disc darkened quickly.

Were you sat in your kitchen wearing pants and listening to Radio1 by any chance?

Sorry couldn't resist

 

[Canyondust]

Totally over my head I am afraid.

Radio 1??? Is it new ?

 

[John Benton]

Totally over my head I am afraid.

Radio 1??? Is it new ?

 

[Canyondust]

thanks.

 

[John Benton]

Was merely enquiring if your 'grout test' was carried out under lab conditions or under the same circumstances to Geoff

 

[Canyondust]

Ah. I'm not sure quite as advanced as Geoff's mine didn't make it out of the bathroom.

I did try to get the data from a manufacturer I will try again.

To do it in the lab a defined test would need to be written. So does soap for instance affect this ? (I know it makes it happen faster).
I will have a think. I have someone who needs a project and to learn some measurement techniques.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

There was a time .......
But now I will just say goodnight!

 

[Qwerty]

I did try to get the data from a manufacturer I will try again.

I will have a think. I have someone who needs a project and to learn some measurement techniques.

I think I can actually hear the tap-tapping of tile manufacturers adding your email address to their spam/ blocked contacts

Without sounding too disrespectful (which this will sound), I don't think anybody here is particularly interested in developing this further. A photo of me in my pants in the kitchen boiling tiles yes, but not a hypothesis on if soap affects water absorption.

You've been a good sport James, and I value your contribution to the forum.

 

[Canyondust]

No worries

I'm interested to see how a water laiden system absorbs water along the lines of tiles adhered to plasterboard and grouted. I stand on this type of system everyday so be nice to know what's really happening.

I will look forward to many more interesting posts.

 

[John Benton]

Sorry I couldn’t find the pic of you boiling tiles in your pants Geoff, but I did locate this one from our trip to Andalusia last year.

 

[Qwerty]

Sorry I couldn’t find the pic of you boiling tiles in your pants Geoff, but I did locate this one from our trip to Andalusia last year.

View attachment 96580

Happy happy memories John. Looking forward to our special time together real soon!

 

[Canyondust]

I appreciate it was stated people may not be interested in further information but should anyone want further information regarding the moisture absorbancy of grouts, the standards and the test framework please pm me and I can discuss.
I spoke to a grout supplier who gave me some data and I also spoke to a colleague of mine at BASF construction chemicals regarding the tests methods and data interpretation.

Aside from that if we take the situation that the grout is saturated, as well as the tile, and one can assume the cement adhesive also, what are the concerns?

Is the concern regarding the cement degrading? The extra mass?
The structure this is fixed to?

 

[Canyondust]

Any takers ?

Aside from that if we take the situation that the grout is saturated, as well as the tile, and one can assume the cement adhesive also, what are the concerns?

Is the concern regarding the cement degrading? The extra mass?
The structure this is fixed to?

When I have some across failures in the past they have been on installations with unknown adhesives and grouts.

 

[Andy Allen]

We don't have any concerns as such, any tile installation done properly should last for many years, from experience most shower / wetroom insulation fail due to water ingress from poor installs, poor maintenance or using substandard material's.
Anyone of the above can start a chain reaction leading to a failure.

What more do you really need to know.?

 

[Canyondust]

What I wish to know is what is actually failing and does saturated tiles matter if the adhesive and structure behind are built with this in mind.

My post suggests the situation that the tile, grout and adhesive is saturated (mimicking the test completed).

Some adhesives quote the adhesion strength after immersion in water, which do drop. However those designed for the role appear to match nominal values for lower priced adhesives.

So to answer your question what are the issue with saturated tiles? Adhesives capable appear to be available ?

The number of failed installations that you have come across must be immense I am interested in what's failed based on the topic of saturated tiles.

 

[Qwerty]

What I wish to know is what is actually failing and does saturated tiles matter if the adhesive and structure behind are built with this in mind.

My post suggests the situation that the tile, grout and adhesive is saturated (mimicking the test completed).

Some adhesives quote the adhesion strength after immersion in water, which do drop. However those designed for the role appear to match nominal values for lower priced adhesives.

So to answer your question what are the issue with saturated tiles? Adhesives capable appear to be available ?

The number of failed installations that you have come across must be immense I am interested in what's failed based on the topic of saturated tiles.

Post your question in a new thread. This one is going off on a tangent

 

[Canyondust]

It's related to wet ceramic tiles.

 

[Qwerty]

It's related to wet ceramic tiles.

No, it's related to other factors. Start another thread if you want to discuss this further

 

[Canyondust]

It's completely related to wet ceramic tiles nothing else - I wrote the post.

I want to ensure to output of the tests are linked to the effects. Makes little sense otherwise.

 

[Qwerty]

It's completely related to wet ceramic tiles nothing else - I wrote the post.

I want to ensure to output of the tests are linked to the effects. Makes little sense otherwise.

It wasn't a request. I will do it for you if you don't. You want to conduct a test then crack on. I am actually interested in the results, but this thread is perfect because of its simplicity. You are over complicating it.

 

[LM]

@Canyondust you seem intent on coming across as some kind of know all scientist with a question for any response given to any question asked. We on this forum for the large part earn our money by installing tiles under the advice and direction given to us by companies like Isomat, Ardex,Mapei,Bostik,Kerakoll,Schonox,Botament and Istarmac but to name a few. If you are serious and truly confident in your questions and objections then why don’t you publically challenge the thousands of chemists and engineers that these companies employ who set the standards for us to follow, or is that a fight you’re too smart to pick?