Tiling on an uneven floor

[ripkord]

Thanks, there doesnt seem to be a recession at the seam to be honest, but there must be given that all the tiles right along the seam are broken. I had mentioned the boards look warped - they dont really, was just the angle I was at - the floor looks level from what I can see - need to get myself a spirit level and make sure. The floor looks in good shape apart from the seam - where there is a 5mm gap between the sheets!! :

 

[Deleted member 9966]

Thanks, there doesnt seem to be a recession at the seam to be honest, but there must be given that all the tiles right along the seam are broken.

looking at your diagram ripkord, there probably wouldn't need to be any kind of dip in the boards as such. if that's where people step out of the bath, a person just has to step in and out of there a few times for there to be enough pressure along the seam to cause failure.

the floor boards that are down either need replacing (if beyond repair) or re-inforcing. boards do bend when they're stood on, they will not be completely solid.

where abouts are you located ripkord? Maybe one of the guys from here could come round and help you to figure out a plan of action?

 

[ripkord]

I'm in Glasgow. I cant really justify taking out and replacing the floor - that would be a proverbial can of worms! If it was for the absolutel long term - I would definitely consider doing that!

 

[Deleted member 9966]

brian c is one of our Trusted advisors on here, and he is in Glasgow too

you can send him a private message http://www.tilersforums.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=1494

 

[ripkord]

do I need to use adhesive to stick the hardibacker as well as screwing it down?

thanks

 

[Deleted member 9966]

a rapid setting flexible adhesive will do the job

 

[ripkord]

Argh! Thanks, this gets more expensive all the time

Ok to sum up:

Rip up existing tiles,
Scrape off all residue of old grout / adhesive,
Ensure floor is screwed down - minimise deflection where possible,
Put hardibacker down with flexy adhesive and screws, adhesive and hardibacker tape on the joints, allow to dry (how long?)
Put tiles down with flexy adhesive - 5mm spacers, allow to dry - 24Hr,
Grout tiles with flexy grout, allow to dry - 24Hr - sponge clean.

Stand back and admire job well done / Scratch head and wonder why its a total mess

That about right!? :dizzy2:

 

[Deleted member 9966]

rapid setting adhesives tend to go off between 2 and 4 hours. but it's worth reading the instructions on the adhesive bags for the manufacturers guidelines.

I did my hallway with rapidset, and I walked on the tiles after 4 hours with no problems.

sounds about right to me. and yes, getting it right can be expensive.

 

[mags]

Argh! Thanks, this gets more expensive all the time

Ok to sum up:

Rip up existing tiles,
Scrape off all residue of old grout / adhesive,
Ensure floor is screwed down - minimise deflection where possible,
Put hardibacker down with flexy adhesive and screws, adhesive and hardibacker tape on the joints, allow to dry (how long?)
Put tiles down with flexy adhesive - 5mm spacers, allow to dry - 24Hr,
Grout tiles with flexy grout, allow to dry - 24Hr - sponge clean.

Stand back and admire job well done / Scratch head and wonder why its a total mess

That about right!? :dizzy2:

Spot on only a very thinlayer under the hardi so have a good coffe and a sarni

 

[ripkord]

Thanks everyone! Ripping the tiles up tonight, give the floor a bit of air. The real work starts Saturday - I'll post back with the results!

There is not enough room to put the hardibacker and tiles under the toilet / sink pedestal so will need to cut - the bloke in the tile shop showed me this weird templating tool that moulds to the shape of the obstruction you are fitting round. That combined with a manual tile saw and a LOT of patience... is that pretty much how to go about it?

 

[mags]

Thanks everyone! Ripping the tiles up tonight, give the floor a bit of air. The real work starts Saturday - I'll post back with the results!

There is not enough room to put the hardibacker and tiles under the toilet / sink pedestal so will need to cut - the bloke in the tile shop showed me this weird templating tool that moulds to the shape of the obstruction you are fitting round. That combined with a manual tile saw and a LOT of patience... is that pretty much how to go about it?

what was it called , I use paper cut the the tile size

 

[ripkord]

Cant remember it was kinda like a flat version of those things you see in the gadget shop with all the metal pins - you know you stick your hand in and it makes an imprint of your hand - I'll try to find it!

edit - looked like this Profile gauge

 

[Daz]

Ripkord, If you have little tiling experience I would probably advise staying away from rapid setting adhesives, as you will lob more of it away than you will use to stick tiles (even now the weather has gone cold).

You are best to use a standard setting addy. Use a 4 or 6mm trowel to stick the hardie in place and screw the sheet down at 150 / 200mm centres almost immediately so that it can't move and the adhesive can bond securely. Enjoy a cuppa and bacon sarnie. Wash the Hardies with clean water to remove dust etc.. Then tile away. You will get all the tiles down on day 1, and you will able to grout in afternoon of day 2. Follow the finishing instructions on grout bag so that you don't end up with a grout haze all over the tiles.

Stand back with beer in hand and admire a good job well done on Sunday night.

 

[silver]

Hi


It may be that only one side of the "seam" is giving the flex ?.....but my guess is the floor where you show it is knacked....... the area/boards is subject to eventual soaking from high use stepping out the bath or quite quick soaking if the tiling / grouting is poor.....it doesnt take long to fail once its started.....
.
I would take it all out.....do it once ...do it right....as everyone has already advised.
But
Though I havent done this....I have seen sections of floor taken out (using height set on circular hand saw) close up to skirting etc.......but its a mega gamble that the plumbing and wiring is set deep enough into the joists......and you will need to add noggins........ If the flooring isnt totally goosed up to the skirtings and you can get slightly under the front edge of the bath....sink / WC out.....this may be an option ?.....then replace timber section ....then.....board out with 6mm H/backer etc
or
If once you find you can get the floor repaired and solid no flex.... ?........and you have height rise issues by boarding ...if you can repair with large format boards again...you could tank the floor....before tiling

If theres a rad with pipes out the floor...remove it and cap the pipes so you can cut a small neat hole in the tiles and not notch them.

Degs

 

[ripkord]

Any tips to getting grout off wood!? Its absolutely solid - chiselling it seems to be the only way but is taking bloody ages! - any other methods aside from an orbital sander or something?

Thanks

 

[ripkord]

Hi


It may be that only one side of the "seam" is giving the flex ?.....but my guess is the floor where you show it is knacked....... the area/boards is subject to eventual soaking from high use stepping out the bath or quite quick soaking if the tiling / grouting is poor.....it doesnt take long to fail once its started.....

I've had a good look at it now the tiles are up - there is practically no movement on either side of that seam, the seam is quite big though and a lot of adhesive has sank into it right where the tiles have cracked, as I was lifting the tiles I could see a cross section (through luck more than design - a tile snapped in two) there was a sizeable air pocket between the tile and the gap where the grout had 'sunk' if you know what I mean.
I'm guessing this didnt help!!

 

[Deleted member 9966]

A sander and a lot of elbow grease is one of the best methods. Or you could try and wire brush attachment on a drill; just mind your fingers!

Try and get as much adhesive and grout off the old boards as you can, but don't worry if you can't remove it all. You'll be spreading a thin layer of adhesive between the old and new boards, so as long as the old adhesive/grout isn't causing bumps in the new adhesive, then you should be ok.

It's hard work, but someone has to do it

My husband did our bathroom floor boarding yesterday and everything went to plan, so he'll be looking to lay the majority of the floor tiles in the next couple of days.

 

[Deleted member 9966]

I've had a good look at it now the tiles are up - there is practically no movement on either side of that seam, the seam is quite big though and a lot of adhesive has sank into it right where the tiles have cracked, as I was lifting the tiles I could see a cross section (through luck more than design - a tile snapped in two) there was a sizeable air pocket between the tile and the gap where the grout had 'sunk' if you know what I mean.
I'm guessing this didnt help!!

well I think you can say that it was the gap/seam between the two boards which has caused the tiles to fail.

if the adhesive has fallen into the gap/seam from the back of the tile, and the tile, adhesive and floor have not all bonded together, then it was only a matter of time before the tile cracked as there was nothing holding it to the floor.

we'll make a floor tiler out of you yet ripkord

 

[ripkord]

Thanks, Wire brush tip is genius!

 

[Deleted member 9966]

Thanks, Wire brush tip is genius!

just be careful you don't dig in too deep... you don't want to make trenches in your old boards!

 

[ripkord]

getting tis adhesive off is murder, wire brush on the drill just aint cutting it, a chisel is the only way this is coming off, its taking bloody ages!!

 

[Gazzer]

Aye its a real pain.

 

[Rob Z]

Ripkord, if I am following this correctly...couldn't you just knock down the highest spots in the residual adhesive, then skim coat over the entire subflloor, let that dry, then install the Hardi in the normal manner? No need to scrape it back to bare wood in order to install the Hardi.

 

[ripkord]

its really uneven, theres about 15 mm of grout at some parts, just trying to get most of it off!, both hands blistered now!! time for something else!! like the pub for example!

 

[Rob Z]

15 mm !!??:mad2: Wow, that is a lot of material to remove.

For us, the cost of labor is almost always more than the cost of material, so this suggestion might not work for you on a DIY project. If faced with this problem, and knowing that the floorboards can't be cut out, I would use a feather patch material and skim over all of that mess and not kill myself trying to get all that stuff off of there.