low foot traffic, and luck, and 3 years realy isnt that long, people dig up near perfect roman mosiacs, not on chipboard though..
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sharpfamily
in brief response to the above 3 posts:
hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.
hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?
hi andy - yes, the room only has foot traffic plus grandkids trikes, but it is the main family room, so the traffic is as least as heavy as in any large family room. As regards 3 years, some had stated earlier in the thread, that the floor wouldn't last 3 months because the fresh wet adhesive would cause the green chipboard to start to swell and the tiles to crack.
Luck - surely there must be more rational reasons than just luck. There are just absolutely no signs of distress in the tiling and the floor will have seen many changes in temp and humidity etc in over 3 years of Aberdeenshire climate, and floor cleaning etc. Can't see that much longer term foot traffic would lead to fatigue failure of the tiling. Liked your comment about roman mosaics.
best,
g
hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.
hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?
hi andy - yes, the room only has foot traffic plus grandkids trikes, but it is the main family room, so the traffic is as least as heavy as in any large family room. As regards 3 years, some had stated earlier in the thread, that the floor wouldn't last 3 months because the fresh wet adhesive would cause the green chipboard to start to swell and the tiles to crack.
Luck - surely there must be more rational reasons than just luck. There are just absolutely no signs of distress in the tiling and the floor will have seen many changes in temp and humidity etc in over 3 years of Aberdeenshire climate, and floor cleaning etc. Can't see that much longer term foot traffic would lead to fatigue failure of the tiling. Liked your comment about roman mosaics.
best,
g
S
Stef
I see you didnt answer my question about working on your boiler or electrics. would you really cut corners of any aspects of these jobs?
the point im trying to make is that guys & girls on here are professional tilers & this is who is best placed to give advice. chipboard is not a suitable subrate to tile too.
in brief response to the above 3 posts:
hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.
hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?
hi sharpfamily, as others have stated tiling directly onto chipboard is not the way forward especially for a pro tiler with a business reputation to keep intact
i also think you have been lucky,some installations do seem to be okay but lots get ripped out
i have ripped out countless floors all in new builds onto chipboard flooring with fastflex
some have been down a year some 2 some 4 some even 5 years
the tiles begin to crack generally,sometimes only 2 or 3 but its enough to ruin the floor especially when you have no spares
would i want to lay 40 metres of porcelain for someone and accept they may crack in 4 years?
the answer is NO
S
Spud
I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la la la la "
G
grumpygrouter
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:...
T
Tabby Cranks
I think we need to rewind a bit here.
The advice given from the start is the correct advice. Most tilers wouldn't tile onto green chipboard even with an adhesive like fastflex. The reason is not because they want to make more work for themselves, but because they have seen the failures over a period of time. Their experience backs up what the BS states with regard fixing onto timber floors.
I've heard of bathroom floors that have been down 20+ years, fixed onto 6mm hardboard. You would never recommend fixing onto that.
You can illustrate it this way. If the law states that you should not drink more than 2 pints and drive, but if I drink four, drive for 10 years without an accident, does that mean that the law is wrong? No, there are lots of other things that could mean that me drinking 4 pints has a lot less effect on someone drink 2. I hope you're getting my point.
That is that your floor may indeed may have enough good things going for it, to minimise the risk of movement, thus keeping the floor sound.
I wonder how it would be if they were your kids and not grandkids, running over it on a day to day basis etc...
One more thing, does that room stay fairly cool all day, or does the sunshine in during the day, then cool at night?
All being said, you may well have a floor that will stay good for many years (using a quality adhesive helps), you took a calculated risk and it's paid off. The thing is proffessional tilers wouldn't take those kind of risks, they'll give you advice how they see fit.
The advice given from the start is the correct advice. Most tilers wouldn't tile onto green chipboard even with an adhesive like fastflex. The reason is not because they want to make more work for themselves, but because they have seen the failures over a period of time. Their experience backs up what the BS states with regard fixing onto timber floors.
I've heard of bathroom floors that have been down 20+ years, fixed onto 6mm hardboard. You would never recommend fixing onto that.
You can illustrate it this way. If the law states that you should not drink more than 2 pints and drive, but if I drink four, drive for 10 years without an accident, does that mean that the law is wrong? No, there are lots of other things that could mean that me drinking 4 pints has a lot less effect on someone drink 2. I hope you're getting my point.
That is that your floor may indeed may have enough good things going for it, to minimise the risk of movement, thus keeping the floor sound.
I wonder how it would be if they were your kids and not grandkids, running over it on a day to day basis etc...
One more thing, does that room stay fairly cool all day, or does the sunshine in during the day, then cool at night?
All being said, you may well have a floor that will stay good for many years (using a quality adhesive helps), you took a calculated risk and it's paid off. The thing is proffessional tilers wouldn't take those kind of risks, they'll give you advice how they see fit.
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Perry
Grumps as you know some of clever people know better than us with all there experience 1 job lolWe have tried to give you advise based on combined dozens of years of experience and tried to explain what problems you are going to have. You have chosen to ignore what has been suggested sadly.
Hopefully things will be OK for you. Good luck, I hope you are still crack free at christmas.
S
sharpfamily
hello Tabby,
thanks for your comments. you're right i took a calculated risk and so far it's paid off. I could do this because it's my home, i was doing it, and the job wasn't safety critical (cf. electrics, boilers, drinking & driving etc ) and, with a professional engineering background, i felt competent to do the risk assessment.
I fully appreciate the commercial risks professional tilers have.
However, I'm still interested to understand why my floor has worked given all the strong advice that it won't and the multi-varied suggestions of what should be done: eg the many brands and types of adhesive, overboarding with ply, various backer boards, membranes etc. There are so many variations on the methods and products the professionals use - all seem to have their own personal preferences.
As regards your queries - I think the traffic load on the floor over the past 3 years will have been at least domestic average, as the room is the main family room - nb the 6 grandkids vary in age from 6months to 14 years but obviously not all here on day to day basis! I can't believe floor traffic is a key issue here.
As regards temperature effects. The windows face due south so during summer days, the sun shines directly onto the floor. In winter the room is heated by a multi fuel stove and we like the temp in the room to be high. When we're away in the winter, the room has little heating and gets very very cold....especially last winter. So the floor has seen many wide temperature variations over the 3 years.
As regards adhesive, I understand BAL don't recommend their SPF on chipboard - may be they're cautiously underestimating the performance of their product, given the variety/quality of chipboards/floor construction. I had used BAL 2 part flexible (+BAL shower kit) on my first tiling here (5 years ago) in our shower room with warmup under tile heating on warmup insulation boards. It's performed very well, but I found the 2 part very messy and unpleasant to work with and it's dear. My last job here (2yrs ago) was on another shower room, again with undertile electric heating, and that time I used the newer bal single part fastflex product. (+ BAL shower kit). Again this has performed very well and was much more pleasant to use that the 2 part and significantly lower cost.
I hope this thread has given interest & food for thought. I wish all tilers good luck.
best,graham
thanks for your comments. you're right i took a calculated risk and so far it's paid off. I could do this because it's my home, i was doing it, and the job wasn't safety critical (cf. electrics, boilers, drinking & driving etc ) and, with a professional engineering background, i felt competent to do the risk assessment.
I fully appreciate the commercial risks professional tilers have.
However, I'm still interested to understand why my floor has worked given all the strong advice that it won't and the multi-varied suggestions of what should be done: eg the many brands and types of adhesive, overboarding with ply, various backer boards, membranes etc. There are so many variations on the methods and products the professionals use - all seem to have their own personal preferences.
As regards your queries - I think the traffic load on the floor over the past 3 years will have been at least domestic average, as the room is the main family room - nb the 6 grandkids vary in age from 6months to 14 years but obviously not all here on day to day basis! I can't believe floor traffic is a key issue here.
As regards temperature effects. The windows face due south so during summer days, the sun shines directly onto the floor. In winter the room is heated by a multi fuel stove and we like the temp in the room to be high. When we're away in the winter, the room has little heating and gets very very cold....especially last winter. So the floor has seen many wide temperature variations over the 3 years.
As regards adhesive, I understand BAL don't recommend their SPF on chipboard - may be they're cautiously underestimating the performance of their product, given the variety/quality of chipboards/floor construction. I had used BAL 2 part flexible (+BAL shower kit) on my first tiling here (5 years ago) in our shower room with warmup under tile heating on warmup insulation boards. It's performed very well, but I found the 2 part very messy and unpleasant to work with and it's dear. My last job here (2yrs ago) was on another shower room, again with undertile electric heating, and that time I used the newer bal single part fastflex product. (+ BAL shower kit). Again this has performed very well and was much more pleasant to use that the 2 part and significantly lower cost.
I hope this thread has given interest & food for thought. I wish all tilers good luck.
best,graham
ahhh your an engineer, that explains alot, most engineers we get on here seem to know more about tiling than all of us put together lol.
i dont understand why you keep saying bal fast flex is messeir to work with than single part fast flex, its the same product, apart from one you mix with a liquid, and one you mix with water hence the cheaper price.
floor traffic has a lot to do with it, get a piece of chipboard, tile and grout it and the tiles will be fine, jump up and down on it and they will brake, the more you jump up and down on it the more it will brake, if its just you and your wife at home with the occasional visit from the grand kids then i would put it in the low foot traffic bracket.
bal products imo, are some of the best on the market, abeit expensive for day to day use, however to say they may be underestimating there products i find absurd, you have a company that invest millions in product research, to produce adhesives suitable for all most every tile application you can think of, providing you follow there recommended guide lines.
your floor is still down now and i hope it stays that way, but lets face it, if it were to all crack up in 6 months time would you really come back here and tell us?
i dont understand why you keep saying bal fast flex is messeir to work with than single part fast flex, its the same product, apart from one you mix with a liquid, and one you mix with water hence the cheaper price.
floor traffic has a lot to do with it, get a piece of chipboard, tile and grout it and the tiles will be fine, jump up and down on it and they will brake, the more you jump up and down on it the more it will brake, if its just you and your wife at home with the occasional visit from the grand kids then i would put it in the low foot traffic bracket.
bal products imo, are some of the best on the market, abeit expensive for day to day use, however to say they may be underestimating there products i find absurd, you have a company that invest millions in product research, to produce adhesives suitable for all most every tile application you can think of, providing you follow there recommended guide lines.
your floor is still down now and i hope it stays that way, but lets face it, if it were to all crack up in 6 months time would you really come back here and tell us?
There are similar tiling threads here
