tiling over floor grade chipboard

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Ok, just tried to copy and paste photo of the floor - but couldn't get it to paste into here. any advice?

Glad your floor is still in one piece, amazed it is. over the last 43yrs I have seen hundreds of failed installations on chipboard, I would never risk it myself. As professional tilers we are only as good as our last job. I would like to stress to anyone reading this thread, do not tile directly onto chipboard!!!!! This job must be one in a million.:yikes:

 

[sharpfamily]

thanks for the help. here's a photo of my floor.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Cleaver chap, that Isaac Newton. Long may gravity prevail:smilewinkgrin:

 

[ollymonkeynuts]

Ive just read this thread with interest. Im about to attempt a 6sqm bathroom floor and walls (total 23sqm) in travertine with UFH over floor joists. Im reading various threads for advice before starting. I have BAL SPF and 18mm T&G chipboard. I know ply is best but im trying to use the chipboard. This is left over from boarding the loft. I also have 22mm chipboard available. I have read all the advice and spoken to BAL technical support who state 10mm tile backerboard over 18mm chipboard and use of a SLC to cover and protect the UFH mat will ensure all goes to plan. Question now being should/could I use the 22mm chipboard with maybe 6mm Marmox - would that be better?
P.S. I wonder if there is a tile equivilant of a 7yr itch in a marriage, when everything goes wrong? I'd love a 7yr update from the sharpefamily. If all is good then I think he really has done well!!!

 

[White Room]

I use 6mm backerboard for laying on floors..glued and screwed.

 

[ollymonkeynuts]

6mm backerboard over 18mm chip? or best to use the 22mm chip? or best to stick with the 10mm (due to the chipboard) on the 18mm chip?

 

[White Room]

I did'nt even know they done 10mm backerboard, 12.5mm is the one for walls..

 

[sharpfamily]

the general consensus in this long thread is that I've been very lucky that my 3yr old floor has been successful. Tiling onto floor grade (green) 22mm chipboard is seen as a big no no.

Backerboards or membranes are seen as essential. backerboards have disadvantage of increase in floor height and membranes (eg ci matting) look very messy and time consuming to install. also many recommend use of 2 part flexible adhesives, which are expensive and messy compared with bal spf. there's also bal single part fastflex which is less messy and less cost than 2 part fastflex.

But in the interests of a learning discussion, I respectfully challenge the forum to offer reasons as to why my floor has been successful so far. It can't be down to luck and 3 yrs is a pretty long test period. (but maybe there is a 7yr itch in tiling!)

My suggestions as to why other tiles over chipboard may have failed are:
- chipboard wrong grade/quality ie not green moisture resistant, t&g boards 22mm
- inadequate floor construction - floor not sufficiently solid ie movement/deflection
can be detected
- damp proofing under floor construction not adequate
- undetected water pipe leaks or undetected leaks from dishwasher/washing machine
- frequent wetting eg bathrooms and weak grouting
- chipboard not thoughly dry at start of tiling
- chipboard has been sanded and that's reduced its moisture resistance
- tiling carried out in very cold conditions
- incorrect mixing/application
- the adhesive and grout used not as good as bal products
- bad luck?

I'm happy to continue to report back annually of the floor's performance and will let the forum know if any problems arise.

best,
graham

 

[Stef]

To reply to the above, you have been very lucky with your floor install. it states above that bal technical advised overboard with 10mm backer board over 18mm c/b.
The one thing , & i think i can talk here on behalf of a lot of tilers, is that joe public think that it is "Only tiling", "its easy". We tile as professionals & when we give advice it is not to rip someone off. we give that advice to be honest & to make sure that our install will last the test of time.
Put it this way. you as a home owner get someone in to work on your boiler or electrics within your house, would you "Cut Corners" with any aspect of any of these jobs? Definitely Not. so why would you cut corners with tiling?
As i have already stated you have been lucky with your floor.

 

[Perry]

reminds me of Humpty Dumpty :mad2:

 

[Andy Allen]

low foot traffic, and luck, and 3 years realy isnt that long, people dig up near perfect roman mosiacs, not on chipboard though..

 

[sharpfamily]

in brief response to the above 3 posts:

hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.

hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?

hi andy - yes, the room only has foot traffic plus grandkids trikes, but it is the main family room, so the traffic is as least as heavy as in any large family room. As regards 3 years, some had stated earlier in the thread, that the floor wouldn't last 3 months because the fresh wet adhesive would cause the green chipboard to start to swell and the tiles to crack.
Luck - surely there must be more rational reasons than just luck. There are just absolutely no signs of distress in the tiling and the floor will have seen many changes in temp and humidity etc in over 3 years of Aberdeenshire climate, and floor cleaning etc. Can't see that much longer term foot traffic would lead to fatigue failure of the tiling. Liked your comment about roman mosaics.

best,
g

 

[Stef]

in brief response to the above 3 posts:

hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.

hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?

hi andy - yes, the room only has foot traffic plus grandkids trikes, but it is the main family room, so the traffic is as least as heavy as in any large family room. As regards 3 years, some had stated earlier in the thread, that the floor wouldn't last 3 months because the fresh wet adhesive would cause the green chipboard to start to swell and the tiles to crack.
Luck - surely there must be more rational reasons than just luck. There are just absolutely no signs of distress in the tiling and the floor will have seen many changes in temp and humidity etc in over 3 years of Aberdeenshire climate, and floor cleaning etc. Can't see that much longer term foot traffic would lead to fatigue failure of the tiling. Liked your comment about roman mosaics.

best,
g

I see you didnt answer my question about working on your boiler or electrics. would you really cut corners of any aspects of these jobs?
the point im trying to make is that guys & girls on here are professional tilers & this is who is best placed to give advice. chipboard is not a suitable subrate to tile too.

 

[kilty55]

in brief response to the above 3 posts:

hi robson - please, I'm certainly not saying 'only tiling'...'it's easy'.

hi pjc - head banging, is that the answer?


hi sharpfamily, as others have stated tiling directly onto chipboard is not the way forward especially for a pro tiler with a business reputation to keep intact

i also think you have been lucky,some installations do seem to be okay but lots get ripped out

i have ripped out countless floors all in new builds onto chipboard flooring with fastflex

some have been down a year some 2 some 4 some even 5 years

the tiles begin to crack generally,sometimes only 2 or 3 but its enough to ruin the floor especially when you have no spares

would i want to lay 40 metres of porcelain for someone and accept they may crack in 4 years?

the answer is NO

 

[Spud]

I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la la la la "