Time Served Tiler's V.s New Tilers

[mz30]

Hi mz,you asked if i'v got paid?
well i have been working with the builder on quite a few jobs and when i ask for a cheque i always get it,i have been doing 1,2 and 3 day weeks in the hotel as its not all ready,my work is real tidy and they are delighted and i have lifted 3 cheques so far! i'm owed £800 after tax for monday! long day but well worth it,50 yds of 150x150 dorset stone from pilkingtons.

Hi hillhead ,
I was just intrested in if you had been paid for one reason.
When one tiler takes over from another it tends to be for payment reasons only.

 

[Taz8130]

As a "Newbie" to tiling I guess I should give my take on the Old Tiler v New Tiler question.

I did the 4 week PTS course at Warrington in April. (Hi Phil, Kirk, Lee & Shaun). This was as a result of having over the years, endured the questionable and at times poor work of so-called "Time Served" tilers on houses I was employed to renovate. As an example, whilst tiling the bathroom in one property, the guy used an angle grinder with a cutting disc attached for a difficult cut on a tile. Did he do the cutting outside?? No - this was far too much effort. He cut it on the landing area. No dust sheets, no protection and no doors closed. This resulted in sparks falling and burning onto a new bedroom carpet. (£350.00's worth thanks very much !!). He did however have the presence of mind to close the door after he had finished so I wouldnt see the damage till after he had left. Had similar problems with plumbers many years ago, so put myself through C&G at nightschool.

Lets face, it in any profession there's good and bad. There are tiler's that have been in the job for years and haven't let their standards drop the are others that are in it for their beer money. This also applies to people who do one of the numerous courses that are now available nationwide.

For me it's job satisfaction, the finished result and the appreciation from the customer when they see the quality of my work.

Don't judge a tiler by their time in the job, judge it by their work and their commitment to quality.

 

[DHTiling]

Don't judge a tiler by their time in the job, judge it by their work and their commitment to quality.

How true is that quote..........

 

[andy-p]

very true taz, but say you have just bought 2 grands worth of marble, who are you going to get to fit it , a quality professional fixer with 20 yrs experience, or a good tiler just off a 4 week course ?? hmmm.... same goes with any other trade... it takes YEARS to learn the trade properly, ill guarentee you will look back in years to come and think how much you have came on , i know i did and still do... good luck im sure you will be a success cos you have the right attitude..

 

[Taz8130]

Andy-P : I understand your point of view but any good tradesman knows his limits. If I were to be offered such a job at this moment, considering my limited experience, I'd pass the work on to but ask that I "shadow" the work to pick up pointers for such a job. Also anyone having that much marble work done would surely do their homework as to the abilities of the guy they get in to do the work.

 

[bal]

What i wonder is what these young lads just leaving school must think that are going through the college route ive had three letters off lads just about to start there college courses asking me for there part in an apprenticeship ,i replied to all saying i couldnt help , abviously thier courses are free but must be disillusioned when they see someone pay £600-£800 for a weeks private tuition and come out the other end being able to work !

 

[tiler burden]

the best way to end this argument is this statement,

'A GOOD TIME SERVED TILER WILL ALWAYS!! BE BETTER THAN A GOOD 4-8 WEEK COURSE STUDENT!!!.....

The key word here is good!!!! people who do a bad job after 4 weeks or 20 years are not tilers, or tradesman, they are cowboys!! dont cofuse a cowboy with a tradesman and by the same rationale, dont confuse a course guy with a cowboy!! the standards you set are what you should be judged on, not the time scale but 3 years quality training has to better than 4 weeks, even the most passionate course trainer couldnt argue with that..

 

[LM Ceramics]

just re opening this debate as i have not put opinion forward obviously im fairly new to tiling but i trained the apprentice route there are arguments for and against but i tend to back the time served tiler. regarding tazs comment i do agree with " dont judge a tiler by how long they have been doing it true" but i only agree with that with one tiler who has been doing it for at least year years and one who has been in the trade for 20 odd years i have seen rough tiling by time served tilers but i reckon most of that is due to lazyness.

there is no harm in having extra competition but the tiling courses are throwing people out convincing them theyhave the confidence to tile anything when it is wrong. i know it is difficult for say a 30 year old with a family and a mortgage to find an apprenticeship caus it isnt always practical however i believe the people who attend these courses who are considering a profession in the trade start off with small jobs for friends or family instead of doin a 5 day course and rushing into to self employment and messing up job.

i recentley did a plastering course a 4 day one but i had a little bit of plastering experience im good enough to plaster for a paint finish but i wouldnt take on a huge job until i was confident enough.

there are loads of muppets around preston claimingto be a tiler after finishing a course and most dont have a clue i have seen some of their work ( one had a pts badge on his card)

like mz30 said between a rough time served time tiler and a rough course "tiler" there is no contest

 

[grumpygrouter]

the best way to end this argument is this statement,

'A GOOD TIME SERVED TILER WILL ALWAYS!! BE BETTER THAN A GOOD 4-8 WEEK COURSE STUDENT!!!.....

The key word here is good!!!! people who do a bad job after 4 weeks or 20 years are not tilers, or tradesman, they are cowboys!! dont cofuse a cowboy with a tradesman and by the same rationale, dont confuse a course guy with a cowboy!! the standards you set are what you should be judged on, not the time scale but 3 years quality training has to better than 4 weeks, even the most passionate course trainer couldnt argue with that..

I'm really, really sad now. It looks as though I will NEVER be as good as a good time served tiler!!!!!!!!

 

[Wylie]

They might come out of these courses think there tilers or trades men,does it not take a few years to develop a good eye for the job

 

[Grace'sDad]

....there are loads of muppets around preston claimingto be a tiler after finishing a course and most dont have a clue....

Stop picking on me Lee!

(I've never even been on a course!)

 

[sWe]

It all comes down to one thing, and that's the willingness to learn.

No matter if you go to a course or go through an apprenticeship, if you're not willing to learn and take the trade seriously, you're never going to become a good tiler, period.

A certain capacity for critical thinking is VERY important. One who just imitates others will never become better than the "others". To always examine what oneself does, and what others do, and asking " is this the best way?", "is it technically sound and efficient?", and "can I improve on this?" is very healthy.

In my opinion, the best way to go is probably a combination of a course and an apprenticeship. The course, in this case, would teach the technical aspects of the trade, in other words up-to-date standards, materials knowledge, and methods, while providing some practise. Once there is a sound foundation to build upon, an apprenticeship would serve to hone the practical skills of the apprentice, all while he or she learns the quirks and "tricks" of the trade.


It's a bit like psychology; there are well over 300 academic schools of thought in psychology, but it's really hard to judge which is best. In fact, most of them are about equally efficient. Why? Because in the end, we're all human.

We all learn in different ways. I, for one, learn best from reading, and then applying and trying it in practise, all while critically examining what's happening. Others can only learn from doing things with their hands, and others learn from someone showing them.

A combination of all of the ways people learn, with some leeway for individual differances, is probably the best way to go. In my opinion atleast.

 

[LM Ceramics]

its the only chance i get to have a dig at you mark lol (only jokin) uve got to admit though mark there is alot of chancers in preston excluding myself :lol:

 

[Wylie]

It all comes down to one thing, and that's the willingness to learn.

No matter if you go to a course or go through an apprenticeship, if you're not willing to learn and take the trade seriously, you're never going to become a good tiler, period.

A certain capacity for critical thinking is VERY important. One who just imitates others will never become better than the "others". To always examine what oneself does, and what others do, and asking " is this the best way?", "is it technically sound and efficient?", and "can I improve on this?" is very healthy.

In my opinion, the best way to go is probably a combination of a course and an apprenticeship. The course, in this case, would teach the technical aspects of the trade, in other words up-to-date standards, materials knowledge, and methods, while providing some practise. Once there is a sound foundation to build upon, an apprenticeship would serve to hone the practical skills of the apprentice, all while he or she learns the quirks and "tricks" of the trade.


It's a bit like psychology; there are well over 300 academic schools of thought in psychology, but it's really hard to judge which is best. In fact, most of them are about equally efficient. Why? Because in the end, we're all human.

We all learn in different ways. I, for one, learn best from reading, and then applying and trying it in practise, all while critically examining what's happening. Others can only learn from doing things with their hands, and others learn from someone showing them.

A combination of all of the ways people learn, with some leeway for individual differances, is probably the best way to go. In my opinion atleast.

I think thats what i was trying to say but gave up on the first sentence

 

[Grace'sDad]

A certain capacity for critical thinking is VERY important. One who just imitates others will never become better than the "others". To always examine what oneself does, and what others do, and asking " is this the best way?", "is it technically sound and efficient?", and "can I improve on this?" is very healthy.

Wise words from sWe.
I have always (from being a little boy, according to my mum) asked "why" as well as "how".

I think if you understand WHY things work a certain way, or WHY things are done a certain way, rather than simply HOW things are done, it leads to a better understanding and knowledge which you can take forward and build on.
When my brother in law was teaching me to plaster, I kept asking "yeah, but WHY do you do it that way?" It drove him nuts, coz he'd just been through a 3 year apprenticeship and forgotten to ask why - but he really knows how! He's a damn good plasterer!