Time Served Tiler's V.s New Tilers

[bishbosh77]

I have done a short course hoping to get my NVQ 2 through on site asesments and would love to be able to work with an experianced tiler, but theres more chance of England winning uro 08.......
So thankfully i have this site to read through peoples problems and any i have to post for help which is invaluble. My lad is 14 and comes on jobs when he can as he wants to learn (and he is very helpfull). If new tilers do a good job and dont take jobs that are above them surely this leaves the best jobs for the experienced guys and wouldn't it be good to team up and exchange work rather than let foreign workers take our work.

Cheers
Bishbosh

 

[andy-p]

It all comes down to one thing, and that's the willingness to learn.

No matter if you go to a course or go through an apprenticeship, if you're not willing to learn and take the trade seriously, you're never going to become a good tiler, period.

A certain capacity for critical thinking is VERY important. One who just imitates others will never become better than the "others". To always examine what oneself does, and what others do, and asking " is this the best way?", "is it technically sound and efficient?", and "can I improve on this?" is very healthy.

In my opinion, the best way to go is probably a combination of a course and an apprenticeship. The course, in this case, would teach the technical aspects of the trade, in other words up-to-date standards, materials knowledge, and methods, while providing some practise. Once there is a sound foundation to build upon, an apprenticeship would serve to hone the practical skills of the apprentice, all while he or she learns the quirks and "tricks" of the trade.


It's a bit like psychology; there are well over 300 academic schools of thought in psychology, but it's really hard to judge which is best. In fact, most of them are about equally efficient. Why? Because in the end, we're all human.

We all learn in different ways. I, for one, learn best from reading, and then applying and trying it in practise, all while critically examining what's happening. Others can only learn from doing things with their hands, and others learn from someone showing them.

A combination of all of the ways people learn, with some leeway for individual differances, is probably the best way to go. In my opinion atleast.

wished id said that swe !!!

 

[White Room]

I was going to do the same but fort i wooldnt bovver:lol:

 

[faceman]

I agree with most things said on this site about building a reputation and living off that. I worked 2 years on site as a sub contractor for someone and doing as much private work at weekends and evenings. A strong reputation can be built that way. Since then went on my own, gained more customers aswell as strengthening the old ones. Currently I don't advertise and don't worry about what other tilers are doing and what they're charging. Love your work, be respectful to customers and they will always recommend you. Phone keeps ringing:hurray:

 

[tiler burden]

grumps, dont despair..

when i wrote that i meant, A good timeserved tiler will always be better than a good 4-8 week course student. of course he will be. theres no way 8 weeks can compare to 3 years. i didnt mean a 4-8 course trainee will never be a good as a time served guy. that would be a ridiculous statement. i literally meant at the end of the 4-8 weeks thats all..

you know i love you grumps and i am sure you would kick the *** of alot of time served gheezers, just not at the end of your 4 weeks!! its too early...your a pro now buddy :0)

anyway, this is a none definable thread...its the individual that matters, not the title or the qualification or the certificate.

 

[Paul Martin]

Certainly generated a lot of debate. I would say you have to look at what your'e asking from a Business and Economics sense. In that it doesn't matter whether Time served or New.

If your good you will retain and attract new business, and you should concentrate on how you're business is developing and not those around you, though you do need to understand how the market is competing.

Marketing and sales skills are key, as you can have the best reputation in town but if you cant generate or close the sale your'e not going to tile. Its that simple.

Competition is competition good or bad this leads to the economics supply & demand, in that if your market area is saturated with tilers then economics dictate low prices, as all seek to attract the customer. (Good for the customers)

It's also like comparing learner drivers, is the guy who passed his test in 5 days better than the guy who last looked at the highway code when he passed his test 20 years ago. Either way the bad driver will crash and burn at some point.....

 

[grumpygrouter]

grumps, dont despair..

when i wrote that i meant, A good timeserved tiler will always be better than a good 4-8 week course student. of course he will be. theres no way 8 weeks can compare to 3 years. i didnt mean a 4-8 course trainee will never be a good as a time served guy. that would be a ridiculous statement. i literally meant at the end of the 4-8 weeks thats all..

you know i love you grumps and i am sure you would kick the *** of alot of time served gheezers, just not at the end of your 4 weeks!! its too early...your a pro now buddy :0)

anyway, this is a none definable thread...its the individual that matters, not the title or the qualification or the certificate.

Thanks Ed, I knew you wern't directing it at me personally, and I knew where you were coming from, it was just the way it was worded. It made me smile so I thought I would give an indication how it sounds when you read it through.

 

[charlie1]

IMO how good a tiler you are in terms of quality of work will depend on many factors
1- How you where trained (Different training techniques' suite different people)
2- Where you willing to learn (Did you go in to the course with the correct attitude)?
3- Do you have the right mental attitude as an individual (can you be self disciplined enough and critical of your own work)?
4- MOST IMPORTANT!!! Do you love tiling?.
5- Are you willing to work HARD?
6- Do you try and work methodically and clean?
7- Experience!!!
If you can answer yes to all of these questions then you probably do a very good job and most importantly you will get even better as years go by. If you are time served or 4 day course (me) we all need to strive to get better
and if we don't we risk our standards slipping.
The question of time served Vs 4 day is irrelevant. There are too many factors to be calculated but generally the time served will be better than the 4 day because of experience.
The 4 day course guy has to get the experience and whilst trying to do so he or she may make too many rep damaging mistakes and find himself with no work.
This situation can be demoralising and if you don't have the mental strength to pull you through you will very easily be put off tiling.
The strong who survive the first year and are still making money doing tiling stand a very good chance of becoming a real tiller IMO.

 

[brambleglen]

listen lads been tiling 25+ yrs and your only as good as your last job. you can do 100 good jobs and 1 bad one you can be sure everyone hears about the bad one !!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad2:

 

[Grace'sDad]

Let me throw a new worm into the can:

What about tilers who have never served an apprenticeship and who have also never had any formal training - not a single day.

What do you think???

 

[LM Ceramics]

actually mark most tilers havent had a formal apprenticeship the firm i used to work for most tilers there didnt have an nvq but their exerience made up for it.

NOW GO TO BED MARK ITS WORK TOMMOROW :yawn: LOL

 

[Grace'sDad]

Ok MUM - night night!

 

[White Room]

listen lads been tiling 25+ yrs and your only as good as your last job. you can do 100 good jobs and 1 bad one you can be sure everyone hears about the bad one !!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad2:

And that goes with any trade:yes:

 

[Raja]

Every man and his dog are now either Tilers or Plasters or Plumbers

The 4 day courses killed the construction industry off

In my opinion

When i qualified in 2001 was 2 solid years full time

32 hours per week At college

Now it is a totally different ball game

The bit that makes me :lol: is 14,000 shortage of tilers

more like 14,000 extra tilers

Saturated Market only winners are the training Centres

Also all these chaps who say

"You are only as good as your last job"

well that is a load of old pony means nothing

The word Time Served is also a worth less word

Only way to be good at somthing is to practice

Prefer the term experianced Tiler

 

[tkm18]

Every man and his dog are now either Tilers or Plasters or Plumbers

The 4 day courses killed the construction industry off

In my opinion

When i qualified in 2001 was 2 solid years full time

32 hours per week At college

Now it is a totally different ball game

The bit that makes me :lol: is 14,000 shortage of tilers

more like 14,000 extra tilers

Saturated Market only winners are the training Centres

Also all these chaps who say

"You are only as good as your last job"

well that is a load of old pony means nothing

The word Time Served is also a worth less word

Only way to be good at somthing is to practice

Prefer the term experianced Tiler

Got to disagree stongly with that statement, in my experience customers will take the advice of friends and family over what a fancy advert or what a tradesmen may say about how good their work is.

You leave a smart, neat tidy job, that'll get you follow on work 9 times out of 10.

We've not advertised for work in nearly 20 years, all word of mouth, worth way more than any ad in a paper.