Travertine and adhesive?

[Gustyturbine]

Sorry Sir Ramic but I am laughing my backside off at my hardboard question!!!!. I will look into these boards as I have never heard of them before. Thanks.

 

[Gustyturbine]

So do you fit these boards instead of a decoupling membrane? It looks like the main point of these boards is to give a sound surface to lay tiles on? Gusty.

 

[Rich]

Thats right, have a read through the link below, might give a bit more info on the backer boards. As said above the decoupling membrane allows the floor to expand and contract at different rates to the stone and the backer boards give a brilliant surface to tile onto, neither will add any strength to the floor but will help make the installation last.


[h=3]Plywood floors...[/h]

 

[Gustyturbine]

Rich,
Many thanks for the info. So if I was to fit these Hardiebacker boards or similar cement boards with Bal flexible adhesive and Bal grout I might be OK? Would you take any other precautions?
Gusty.

 

[Rich]

Rich,
Many thanks for the info. So if I was to fit these Hardiebacker boards or similar cement boards with Bal flexible adhesive and Bal grout I might be OK? Would you take any other precautions?
Gusty.

Bal adhesive will be fine, I use Mapei products and couldn't recommend them enough. If there is a tile giant near you I would have a chat with them as you may get a better price. Have a look through the link below and see where the nearest store is.


[h=3]Mapei: Tile Giant Store Finder...[/h]


Here is some info on Hardiebacker boards. Just be aware that if you use another brand then the installation methods may change, make sure that you read through the instructions and follow them to the letter. As long as you have the floor deflection free (sounds like you have) and you use the right materials (sounds like you are) and follow the manufacturers instructions, you should be fine.


[h=3]HardieBacker...[/h]


You say that you have tiled before but only with ceramics, there are a few differences with using stone. After you have fitted the cement boards and the uncoupling membrane, you will need to fill the holes in the uncoupling membrane with adhesive using the flat side of your trowel, then spread the adhesive with a half moon trowel. Then you need to "back butter" the back of each tile with adhesive with the back of your trowel (in the same way as the un coupling membrane) and then press the tile into the bed of adhesive with a twisting motion. It is very important to make sure that there are no voids under the tiles. You will need to work very clean as stone is easily stained, keep a bucket of clean water next to you and clean off any adhesive straight away.
Might be worth doing a search on here and having a read through some threads related to tiling with stone

 

[Gustyturbine]

Thanks Rich. Loads of great advice. My floor has nothing like 3mm deflection over 400mm so I feel a little more confident now. I just like doing the job properly and do it once. Because I am tight probably (and lazy). Thanks again all for the great advice and I will let you know how I get on. Thanks again Rich. I owe you a beer,
Gusty.

 

[Gustyturbine]

Going on slightly then. A local tiler told me that Trav should be cut with a grinder as a wet Trav tile can not be laid. Would you agree. Seems a bit dodgy to me as the adhesive is mixed with water!! As long as the tile is clean and had a wipe I would have thought that after wet cutting would be fine? Thanks.

 

[Gustyturbine]

Wot!!! Just looked at the Bal adhesive list, flex this and flex that!! Nothing easy these days. Any idea on the best adhesive, Mapei or Bal (cheapest probably). Grout is grout though right? Please dont tell me I have 30 grouts to choose from!:mad2:

 

[Rich]

A wet cutter will cut the trav better than a grinder but will get the stone soaking wet, this is a problem as you will not be able to get a decent bond to the back of the tile if it is wet. If you get your hands on a decent grinder disk it would save you the hassle of drying the stone before laying it. I dont use Bal (at least I haven't for a long time), I use Mapei adhesives and grouts and usually lay cement boards with Keraquick. When it comes down to grout, there are a few to choose from but if you go with Mapei, they do a grout called Ultracolor Plus. This does just about everything, really is all singing all dancing but Im afraid you will have to pick the colour you want, there are 26 to choose from :smilewinkgrin:.
As I dont use Bal I will let somebody who does tell you which products to use on that front.

 

[widler]

Going on slightly then. A local tiler told me that Trav should be cut with a grinder as a wet Trav tile can not be laid. Would you agree. Seems a bit dodgy to me as the adhesive is mixed with water!! As long as the tile is clean and had a wipe I would have thought that after wet cutting would be fine? Thanks.

mmm,not sure about thi,i have laid many a trav floor with wet cutters,as long as you wipe excess water off(ie,its not dripping wet) it will be fine.
i have tiled a 30m2 floor,where nearly EVERY trav tile had to be cut with my big wet bench cutter,it was over 4 years ago,i still go to the farm where i laid it,not a problem at all. i would of thought that with a dry cutter, dust would of been a bigger problem than wet.

ps,don't be too hard if you don't agree,im still rough as a dog after benidorm stag do:8:

 

[Gustyturbine]

So how does Mapei compare to Bal cost wise? What Mapei adhesive would be best suited? Thanks,
Gusty.

 

[Gustyturbine]

My wife has found the tiles she loves! After insisting on travertine all the time she has now gone for a ceramic tile instead. No problem at all love I said as I am out for many beers this weekend!!!!! So anyway, if I now fit ceramic do I still need a decoupling membrane? Would my cement board be fine instead? I would still use the Bal or Mapei flexible products. Thanks,
Gusty.

 

[White Room]

Cement boards then tile for ceramic..as long as you have no bounce on the floor.

 

[doug boardley]

yep, can probably dispense with the decoupler if you're using ceramic, although hardiebacker is still a "must" for me.

 

[Rich]

Im not disagreeing with the guys above, you would be fine without it as long as the floor has no bounce and I would defiantly use a cement board. But just to add, there would still be a benefit to using the decoupling membrane as well so if you have already bought the mat or still wanted to use it, it wouldn't do any harm.

 

[Gustyturbine]

Thanks guys. Out of interest I was talking to a guy that worked on T4 at Heathrow yesterday. He was telling me that they tiled straight on chipboard on battens with that heavy foot traffic! Even book stalls with some racks at over half a ton. They have not had any problems. Does it totally depend on deflection and luck? They did use flexible products though?

 

[Rich]

Bad bad bad practice. If only I had a pound for every time we heard "and never had a problem". Chipboard is not a suitable substrate to tile onto, it is not only a matter of deflection. Chipboard is very common in new buildings because it is cheap. Chipboard swells and moves with temperature/moisture/humidity to much.

Only a cowboy or somebody who doesnt know any better would tile directly onto chipboard.

 

[Gustyturbine]

You have me convinced Rich, cement board it is. Partly because these tiles are not going down at Heathrow but in my own house. This means that if I get any problems guess who is ripping them out again? You got it, my missus!!! :hurray:

 

[Rich]

You have me convinced Rich, cement board it is. Partly because these tiles are not going down at Heathrow but in my own house. This means that if I get any problems guess who is ripping them out again? You got it, my missus!!! :hurray:

:lol: I like your thinking.

 

[Gustyturbine]

So gents, now I am going for porcelaine on the floor and walls in one bathroom and trav in the other. I will 6mm hardie the floor in both. White adhesive for the trav. What tape should I use for the Hardie boards edges? Also on the walls for the trav as they are partition should I use the Hardie 500 glued and screwed? The weight would be too much otherwise.
What is the best system for sealing over a shower tray at the tile joint these days, silicone looks bad? Any advice please,
Gusty.

 

[Rich]

So gents, now I am going for porcelaine on the floor and walls in one bathroom and trav in the other. I will 6mm hardie the floor in both. White adhesive for the trav. What tape should I use for the Hardie boards edges? Also on the walls for the trav as they are partition should I use the Hardie 500 glued and screwed? The weight would be too much otherwise.
What is the best system for sealing over a shower tray at the tile joint these days, silicone looks bad? Any advice please,
Gusty.

Hello mate, you should be able to pick up the tape that Hardie supply with the boards from the same place you got the boards from. If the wall will not be able to take the weight of the tiles as it is then screwing a cement board to the studs will be the best bet. I dont use Hardie myself (I use a very similar board but the installation instructions are different between the two) so I will let some1 else advise on which board to use but you shouldn't need to glue them as well, just screw them really well so that they are solid. By far the best system for sealing over the shower tray is a hight quality silicone done well. A lot of people dont like silicone because they have seen it done badly, have a look at the Karl Dahm silicone sets in the link below. They are brilliant and make a really neat bead.


Tradetiler Tilers Silicone and tools

 

[DHTiling]

Just make sure it is Alkaline resistant scrim tape..

 

[Gustyturbine]

I would guess this is the same tape the plasterers use then?
Gusty.