Using RIW Tilesafe to repair Homelux floor matting - repair patch

[leee-na]

I've lifted two cracked tiles from our wetroom floor and damaged the waterproof membrane in the process roughly - an area of 30 x 20cm. Looks like it's a Homelux product and the damaged part is right next to the waste on the former tray.

Any advice on how best to repair this making watertight again? I don't really want to spend £50 on a roll of Homelux floor matting. I have a piece of RIW Tilesafe (the bitumen stuff) and tape. Will this work and how best do I going about doing it? I know it's not recommended seeing as they are two completely different products but ... I am at a loss!

 

[Waluigi]

Hmm, difficult to say really. The issue I believe Homelux had with their matting is that they recommended a standard cement based adhesive for the joints which aren’t waterproof. I found this was a weak spot in the system.

You would think that a paint on system would probably work fine.

It does indeed look like the Homelux floor matting and perhaps one of the Topps trays which I thing are made by Impey but are hollow instead of resin.

 

[One Day]

Why had the tiles cracked in the first instance?
I have years of experience seeing failed wet room installations and I can guarantee you that a patch repair is not going to sort out the CAUSE of the problem.
(Sorry to come across as a pessimist)

 

[Waluigi]

Maybe an investigation below might be an option.

 

[leee-na]

Tiles cracked because we have an obscenely heavy showerhead that has slipped from the seating on the handlebar and dropped on the tiled floor. No problems with water ingress otherwise. We've had the installation for nigh ten years.

 

[leee-na]

Just to add, we've had no leaks that we can see since cracking the tiles. It's been left like that for around a year but it was super cracked and unsightly. I just decided to spring into action and finally get round to replacing those tiles and was too much of a brute when lifting the tiles up!

 

[leee-na]

Should I go ahead and patch with the tilesafe membrane or homelux or is it better with the paint on system like the tilemaster? Sorry for the stupid question but does the paint on system work on the former trays?

I'd prefer to stick with the tilesafe seeing as I already have it but obviously won't use it if it means compromising the waterproofing.

Newbie here, clearly, shaking in her boots.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Although I was impressed with the Bitumen Impey tilesafe - never had any issues with it - I don’t think they recommended using it with Silicon and you’ll need something around that outlet!

 

[Waluigi]

Is that a typo Timeless John?

You were impressed with Tilesafe?

Leee-na, I’d probably use Tilemaster tanking in this instance. Paint, tape and then more paint x 2

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Yes - done properly it was forerunner of today’s improvements.

 

[Waluigi]

I thought it was bad compared to Schlüter Kerdi. This was 15 + years ago. I’m not sure how far back Tilesafe Goes before that. Weather conditions whilst using the system cost me a lot of money using Tilesafe.

The Impey Aquadec was brilliant though. A proper solid Wet Dec.

 

[leee-na]

Thanks for the input.

Timeless John,
I can't get hold of the Tilesafe jointing compound (in lieu of Silicon sealant) for the waste so I guess that is not an option anymore. Unless there is another jointing compound I can substitute with?

Waluigi,
Would love to use the Tilemaster but it costs £50 for the materials, which seems excessive for a small patch. Same as buying in the Homelux matting - £50.

The question is the integrity of the joints between the old Homelux fabric+thinset layer and the new membrane or any paint on system. I don't have a lot of the old membrane to tape to, roughly 1cm and less, on one of the jointing edges (see first photo top side).

Enough overlap with the tape or lift up one more tile?

Also, I can get my hands on some Impey Waterguard membrane, tape and jointing compound. Will this do the trick?

 

[Waluigi]

I don’t like the idea of using Tilesafe membrane personally, whether you get the sealant or not.

£50 materials to repair the tanking on a wet room, I wouldn’t consider to be excessive.

I think the physical membranes option is out of the question. That’s the fault with these membranes, you are relying on a non waterproof tile adhesive to provide the seal, usually by a large overlap. 1cm is not enough. (I’m talking about Homelux)

I’d say that paint on is your only option really.

Isn’t Tilesafe membrane too thick? Just taken a second look at your pictures

 

[hmtiling]

Thanks for the input.

Timeless John,
I can't get hold of the Tilesafe jointing compound (in lieu of Silicon sealant) for the waste so I guess that is not an option anymore. Unless there is another jointing compound I can substitute with?

Waluigi,
Would love to use the Tilemaster but it costs £50 for the materials, which seems excessive for a small patch. Same as buying in the Homelux matting - £50.

The question is the integrity of the joints between the old Homelux fabric+thinset layer and the new membrane or any paint on system. I don't have a lot of the old membrane to tape to, roughly 1cm and less, on one of the jointing edges (see first photo top side).

Enough overlap with the tape or lift up one more tile?

Also, I can get my hands on some Impey Waterguard membrane, tape and jointing compound. Will this do the trick?

Tilesafe jointing compound is just semi setting butyl sealant.

 

[hmtiling]

Tesco direct: Everbuild 145 Butyl Rubber Sealant 300ml - https://www.tesco.com/direct/everbuild-145-butyl-rubber-sealant-300ml/773-3944.prd?source=others

 

[leee-na]

Tesco direct: Everbuild 145 Butyl Rubber Sealant 300ml - https://www.tesco.com/direct/everbuild-145-butyl-rubber-sealant-300ml/773-3944.prd?source=others

Thanks hmtiling, good to know.

I don’t like the idea of using Tilesafe membrane personally, whether you get the sealant or not.

£50 materials to repair the tanking on a wet room, I wouldn’t consider to be excessive.

I think the physical membranes option is out of the question. That’s the fault with these membranes, you are relying on a non waterproof tile adhesive to provide the seal, usually by a large overlap. 1cm is not enough. (I’m talking about Homelux)

I’d say that paint on is your only option really.

Isn’t Tilesafe membrane too thick? Just taken a second look at your pictures

Agreed on the Homelux. That's struck out.

Yeah, I'm thinking jointing areas Tilesafe tape plus membrane patch maybe too thick - it's tight.

BTW any reason why you don't like the Tilesafe for this case use? If I tape with the correct overlap, what can go wrong with it?

Just noticed that I've cut away a join section of 1cm with no membrane to tape to. Can I still paint over as is with the Tilemaster?

 

[leee-na]

x

 

[Waluigi]

I just think it’s safer to use a paint on membrane.

Tilesafe might be OK for a new install. (I don’t like the product full stop TBH) but in this case I don’t think it’s right.

 

[leee-na]

Ok, I've spoken to Tilemaster and they don't recommend their paint on system for the former tray because it won't stick (our former tray is either plastic or resin). They recommend using a membrane.

And it looks like I'm going to have to lift another tile to access more membrane and tape the seam properly.

So I am back to the Tilesafe or Waterguard. I've got very little play for bedding the tiles. Any consensus on which is better in this scenario? Which membrane is thinner?

 

[Waluigi]

Oh that’s a shame. I’ve only ever used the paint on gear on standard substrates.

I’m not familiar with Waterguard. Is it applied with tile adhesive?

I know what does stick to plastic- Schlüter Kerdi with Kerdi Fix. Did this a couple of times when waterproofing.

Unfortunately I can’t advise much further on tikesafe, or Waterguard.

It seems a shame to have to take more tiles up. You would think there is a paint on system that is suitable.

 

[hmtiling]

Wa

Ok, I've spoken to Tilemaster and they don't recommend their paint on system for the former tray because it won't stick (our former tray is either plastic or resin). They recommend using a membrane.

And it looks like I'm going to have to lift another tile to access more membrane and tape the seam properly.

So I am back to the Tilesafe or Waterguard. I've got very little play for bedding the tiles. Any consensus on which is better in this scenario? Which membrane is thinner?

Waterguard is thinner and more user friendly

 

[hmtiling]

Oh that’s a shame. I’ve only ever used the paint on gear on standard substrates.

I’m not familiar with Waterguard. Is it applied with tile adhesive?

I know what does stick to plastic- Schlüter Kerdi with Kerdi Fix. Did this a couple of times when waterproofing.

Unfortunately I can’t advise much further on tikesafe, or Waterguard.

It seems a shame to have to take more tiles up. You would think there is a paint on system that is suitable.[/QUOTE
Waterguard is self adhesive like tilesafe and a great product.

 

[leee-na]

Update: I have lifted another tile and the Homelux membrane is so brittle that the waterproof backing (black stuff) is disintegrating on touch and separating from the fabric fleece top. The whole thing is not stuck to the tray. This stuff is horrible.

I'm going to trouble shoot with some 100mm wide double-sided butyl jointing tape (not Impey tape but ok to use?). Clean out as much of this adhesive membrane from under the fabric and stick the fleece top back down to the tray on the underside then cover topside with Waterguard patch - if you get what I mean.

Doe that make sense? Or better to tape down the old membrane topside and patch over with the Waterguard?

I am beginning to regret even touching those cracked tiles now.

 

[Waluigi]

This is getting a bit worrying. What was the Homelux stuck down with? The actual membrane is brittle?

 

[leee-na]

Im guessing the contractor used thinset to stick the Homelux to the tray. There's the fabric fleece layer then the black layer, which I guess is the waterproof membrane on the back of the Homelux, and then some white dust that's the adhesive. I think you can see this in the pics.

I mean it's an old installation - nine or ten years - so maybe that's why the membrane is flaking off the tray? But yeah, it's totally brittle. I can actually prise up the membrane with my fingernail and see under to the tray. 🙁

 

[Waluigi]

That sounds like a design fault.

Homelux is based on Schlüter Kerdi who were the innovators. I know that Kerdi is a Polyethylene with fleece on. I assumed Homelux was a similar tech.

 

[leee-na]

Hmmm, I did notice that the adhesive/membrane was slightly damp in places when I first dismantled. Not the fleece fabric but the black polythelene type stuff. Could water ingress be weakening the bond and making it brittle?

On reflection, it was definitely a mistake to leave those cracked tiles like that for so long.

 

[leee-na]

Hi all, my saga continues ...

Rang up Homelux Technical who were most unhelpful. The "technical" guy on the phone couldn't even tell me the composition of the floor matting nor could he find documentation on it, nor could he advise on fixing said problem. After sending some pics, got a follow-up defacto email from their customer care, which basically said there is no fault with the Homelux membrane and all is as it ought to be. Recommendation is to pull up the entire installation and start from scratch.

Anyway, for the sake of completeness, this is what I did:

Wipe clean the former and cut away the brittle polyethylene from under the fleece fabric (had to cut notches in the fabric to get under there). Slide the double-sided butyl tape under fabric membrane, fold the fleece fabric back down. Cover entire area with Waterguard. Apply butyl rubber sealant along perimeter edges of Waterguard, including the dropdown into the waste area.

The butyl rubber sealant says not to use on plastic - but I have used it in the waste drop down area. Should I worry?

Any other thoughts on my process?

Now all I got to do is tile. I've taken off as much adhesive as possible without touching the underfloor heating. Should I prime the old adhesive in the other areas before I tile or can I just go ahead and tile on top?

Who would have thought this would take so blooming long 😕