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Diamond Pool Finishers
well i find it interesting Lee, it's a very interesting subject in general , nothing wrong in copy and paste,, i was not trying to pass it off as mine (like others on here have done ) and it come's from a more reliable source that three guys in a garage !! love it .......
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DHTiling
it was an example of thermal/lateral ... <<<<< notice the lateral word... side ways movement if i have to use laymans wording...
Anyway i was backing what the lads are doing and not saying it was wrong.... pool fool jumps in again :lol:
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Diamond Pool Finishers
yes Dave sideways due to THERMAL EXPANTION /CONTRACTION not pulling only , you should have stayed admin and you could of banned me again, instead of keep trying this pathetic banter of yours (grow up man )
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DHTiling
You want banning pool fool then see admin for that... :lol: ... Swedish mike was right hey 🙂
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Oh and santa didn't bring you spell check 🙂
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Oh and santa didn't bring you spell check 🙂
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Diamond Pool Finishers
what is your problem lol you just can't get over your 7-3 thrashing , i thought you were a better sportsman than that :lol: obvi NOT , if you have a problem with me PM me and we can talk, this is not good on a tiling forum
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DHTiling
7-3 ... old news.. :lol:..
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Spud
dpf the article you posted is interesting reading but you have to understand how the 2.5 mm deformability is reached.It is tested with a piece of string covered with adhesive suspended betwen 2 points and a weight applied if it exceeds 2.5mm its an S1 if it gets to 5mm before breaking its a S2 so how this relates to a tiling installation and the real world I am not quite sure for me I am more interested in the polymer content of the adhesive as this is what gives the bond to the back of the tile on porcelain . matting failures have cost me money so I will be testing them and will use the ones I find perform the best
I've had a rate good skin full just now so won't waffle on.
What I will say is; I've watched every video and enjoyed them.
I've also seen the work gone into a) setting the tests up and b) committing to rules and showing to us what those are.
But in my opinion, with the same amount of effort and money, you guys could probably pull off some tests that perhaps get done behind the scenes over and over again by manufacturers, as they try to better their products compared to competitors, but public ally and including many brands.
Just saying you put a lot of effort into proving not much when it comes to British standards.
Perhaps you could focus on showing people why each product gets the rating they get and why you should use a product over and above another.
As said; I've watched all your videos a lot, sometimes I've watched some 7,8,9 times.
I like them. But they're genuinely not showing people what product is best. They're more sort of showing people what you guys have found is best in the conditions you've setup. And it's not something that'd stand when it comes to British standards which is a shame as people watching the videos might assume they're endorsed in some way by the brands quoted in the videos.
And I've not seen one brand so far agree that your test is endorsed, even the sigma v rubi ones.
Again, I like them, but I think the same amount of effort, doing it the right way, would carry more weight generally.
Get a tensile machine for a start I bet they're only a few quid they're just a compressor and a measuring thing by the looks of it to me. That'd get your adhesive and coupler tests to bs.
What I will say is; I've watched every video and enjoyed them.
I've also seen the work gone into a) setting the tests up and b) committing to rules and showing to us what those are.
But in my opinion, with the same amount of effort and money, you guys could probably pull off some tests that perhaps get done behind the scenes over and over again by manufacturers, as they try to better their products compared to competitors, but public ally and including many brands.
Just saying you put a lot of effort into proving not much when it comes to British standards.
Perhaps you could focus on showing people why each product gets the rating they get and why you should use a product over and above another.
As said; I've watched all your videos a lot, sometimes I've watched some 7,8,9 times.
I like them. But they're genuinely not showing people what product is best. They're more sort of showing people what you guys have found is best in the conditions you've setup. And it's not something that'd stand when it comes to British standards which is a shame as people watching the videos might assume they're endorsed in some way by the brands quoted in the videos.
And I've not seen one brand so far agree that your test is endorsed, even the sigma v rubi ones.
Again, I like them, but I think the same amount of effort, doing it the right way, would carry more weight generally.
Get a tensile machine for a start I bet they're only a few quid they're just a compressor and a measuring thing by the looks of it to me. That'd get your adhesive and coupler tests to bs.
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charlie1
I don't think the guys testing are taking this too serious tbh... Are you? Your not looking to re write the rule book are you? The way i see the tests are like lee says, just a bit more nuts and bolts real world 'advice' to the tiler.
that's all it is imo, we all do little tests every year. The guys are just doing things that we all think of doing so its all good.
having said that, i don't think its fair to say they are just messing around, there results are quite useful.
chill out you lot... Just chill 🙂
that's all it is imo, we all do little tests every year. The guys are just doing things that we all think of doing so its all good.
having said that, i don't think its fair to say they are just messing around, there results are quite useful.
chill out you lot... Just chill 🙂
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Spud
I was thinking today about the test we have done being unscientific and being asked to use a tensometer to measure the force being applied to the pieces of plywood when it dawned on me than the forces may be worked out using mechanical formula that you learn in physics at school, the forces applied to a screw thread can be worked out with a formula called "mechanical advantage" and the force applied to the turning handle can be worked out using the "moment of force" calculation this is measured in newton metres ,I am going to do some research into this over the next few days and dig out my old o level physics text book to see if I can work out using these simple formula the forces being applied to the ply wood through the screw threads of the jig we will be making
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The D
What is science if not the quest for answers ??
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The D
You cant always have an 18mm step at the door and you did not mention if you prime the under side and the edges of the ply you also did not mention weather you acclimatise the ply to the room it is going to be installed in. if you add moisture to the equation I think you may get different results.
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Colour Republic
Oak beams are 'solid as a rock' but that doesn't stop them from getting the shakes and spliting.
40mm oak worktops are solid but if screwed down tight to kitchen units they will twist that kitchen out of shape with the greatest of ease as it expands and contracts.
Now even though ply is engineered to be structurally more stable than a single piece of timber, it still expands and contracts along its grain (lateral movement) You say so yourself and it's the reason you leave a 5 mm expansion gap. You can over fix ply though, so peppering it with fixings won't make it any more stable, in fact it can do more harm because those forces have to go somewhere, normally by twisting the product up (non lateral movement).
Fine do away with ply and use backerboards. The timber or concrete structure they are attached to will still expand and contract.
You won't stop a building from moving no matter how hard you try or what you build it out of. Decouplers are just another way to help combat those forces and allow the building to move without causing physical damage to decorative surfaces. Putting skrim tape over plasterboard joints before plastering or putting decorators caulk between skirting and walls before painting are just the same. It's not a guarantee it won't fail, it's a safeguard.
Whether you think decouplers do the job they claim or that it is just introducing another element open to failure is up to the person who uses them to decide. Maybe by watching the results from your test will help them with that decision, assuming they agree with how the tests were carried out holds water.
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Dougs Third Go
it's fair to say that the only "cracking" I heard was Ray's ciggy lighter:lol:...keep up the good work guys
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The D
If you use ply that has been stored in humid conditions it may have a large moisture content swelling the ply, if you then fit the ply in a dry room the ply will inevitably shrink as the moisture evaporates from
the ply. Alternatively if the ply was stored in dry conditions and fitted in a humid room the ply will swell as it takes on moisture.
Over the years company’s have come up with flexible grout and flexible adhesive but that has not solved the problem yes it will sick the tile to the ply and it will do a very god job of that but will it stop a fracture appearing in a tile (some even advise you stick the tile directly to the T&G floor boards there adhesive is that flexible ) but the tile is not flexible and people that fit tiles directly to ply are running a high risk of a fracture (I was going to say a failure but it is not an adhesive failure it is the tile its self that will fail)
Uncoupling mats are designed to relieve the stress on the tile caused by this type of movement in the sub floor.
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Spud
had another think about calculating the force applied to the plywood in our experiment and came up with the idea of using a torque wrench to turn the screw thread when we do the experiment , I have been looking on ebay and I can get a digital one or I can buy a conventional one from Halfords
how you going to get over the benches breaking...
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charlie1
Gary, why not just ditch the clamps on the bench and apply the force with heavy weights, wont go in to details ,im sure you could rig something with some rope
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Spud
not going to use a work bench ,I went to see Ray today and we did a trial of a couple of ideas we had and the forces involved are far to high for work mate benches,we have managed to get one design jig to seperate the ply wood and transfer a crack through to the tile but it has worked out to be a more complex than we anticipated ,that said once we have the test rig made it will be easy to complete the test and get the results and we are on the right track now
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Colour Republic
I think the biggest obstacle you have is when trying to either push or pull the ply apart that you manage to keep it flat, the few ideas I came up with in my head for jigs the other day would mean the ends would want to buckle up (or down) as you did it
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Aston
rob colour rep makes the valid point..buildings move throughout the year!!
ply is screwed to joists
joists rest on walls
walls are built on foundations
foundations rest on the ground
the ground moves throughout the year..expands in winter and with rain,, contracts in summer
so with that in mind, i'll keep using them when the situation demands...anyway, schluter have only modified/evolved decouplers for timber floors from what the romans first created for laying stone
ply is screwed to joists
joists rest on walls
walls are built on foundations
foundations rest on the ground
the ground moves throughout the year..expands in winter and with rain,, contracts in summer
so with that in mind, i'll keep using them when the situation demands...anyway, schluter have only modified/evolved decouplers for timber floors from what the romans first created for laying stone
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