What would you do

[jonnyc]

I had an appointment in Cotswolds yesterday which was arranged for 1pm.
got up early to get address from email the owner of stone company had sent who was asking me to quote for various works .at end of email I was asked to not come to site but meet in a car park where owner wanted me to put on polo shirt and gillett with their company logo.
this suggested to me that I was certainly expected to pretend to be an employee of the company.
i have never been asked to do this before and I haves worked for many stone companies over the years.
i decided not to go the meeting as if I got the job I would have to ask my employees to dress up and lie that they are employees of another company to me.i could imagine having to hide my company van out of view and all sorts of things.
has this ever happened to you and what would you have said.
to cap this I then looked up the company website and second image that came up on cameras was picture of a stone floor I laid in a photo shoot for a stone company I do a lot of work for!!!!!
is this just cheeky or out of order.

maybe I'm too straight but I was not impressed by either of these two facts

 

[Gazzer]

Well out of order but I guess in the past I have bene asked to wear Hi Viz vests from a company i was doing the job for.

 

[jonnyc]

High viz is is bit different isn't it or maybe not.
i am sure that had I met in car park I would have been briefed to say I was an employee especially as I was being asked to leave my van in pub car park and then go to site in company vehicule.
building firms often hand out his just so they don't get done when contractors forget to bring their own.
got me thinking about getting my photos on my website watermarked.
my mate did some and then added more that anyone can copy and pass off as their work

 

[Gazzer]

I already had a Hi Viz but they wanted me to wear one with their name on. I guess it was no biggie and not in the same league as your situation. ........anyway they didnt get their Hi viz back :lol:

 

[Dougs Third Go]

I wouldn't have done it either Johnny, don't like companies that try to "big" themselves up.

 

[Colour Republic]

On the fence with this one. sort of...

If you are quoting the job and doing it on a sub-contract basis then no way. If he was employing you and the lads on a day rate basis come what may, then effectivly you are his employee for that period of time... sort of. and don't think thats as bad.

I don't know it's a bit of a weird one as I know I have done similar in the past, can't remember the last time but I know i've done it on certain contracts and it's always been with sub-contractors that I give lots of work to and pay on day rate, they are my 'regulars' if you like. My sparks, my plumber (who I might add was a direct employee for quite some time) etc. So I don't think it's cheeky at all. Never a firm that I don't know from Adam or only use on occasion.

In fact i've had to do it in the past for a real high-end kitchen firm that have subbed installs out to us. It's not always a case of somebody trying to big themselves up, it's just about smart image. That kitchen firm had nothing to prove!

As for the stealing of images, well that is a **** take!! Inexcusable and zero deffence against it!

 

[jonnyc]

i think it was the fact that i was asked to leave my vehicle in the pub car park and owner never met me before .
i was thinking owner worried about his image and maybe not trusting me even though i was recommended to owner by one of the companies who use me regularily and whos floor they had on thier own website.!!!
if he is so worried he should employ guys like i do
costs me loads to employ and then heres someone who wants us to dress up in his gear to give impression that he employs his own team .
There is no way i would make my employees wear a different comapny shirt and have to lie for someone elses benefit .
Have worked for four very high end stone comanies many times in the past ,Artisans /Stoneage Paris Ceramics and Martin moore stone. None of them have ever asked me to wear their gear but out of respect I dont get my employees to wear our logo polo shirts .
We dont shout about our own company adn certainly if smeone asks i would say that we do plenty of work for that company but not that we are employees.
These companies all trust me when i work for their rivals and many many times a client has gone from stoneage to paris and i have recommended by both. i never take sides or reveal any gossip i know about either so it works .
as soon as you start telling lies or pret3ending you are something you are not then in time you will get caught out.
stone world is vey small as was shown when i looked the web site up and saw a floor i laid for one of the above for their main brochure on this new company website.
at that point i am really thinking i dont want to get involved with a company like this.
i had the truck all loaded up with scrub machine, cleaning gear pressure washer and if i had been told beforehand what the terms were for me working i would not have wasted my time .

 

[Colour Republic]

Ahh there is a difference between asking somebody to wear their company logo'd workware whilst on site and asking them to lie about their employment status.

It does sound like your guy is pretending to be something they are not. What with meetings in car parks and using stolen images, I say stolen images but if you were recommended by the firm that the images came from, is a possibility that this firm had a hand in it? i.e design or supply.

I don't think it's a case of trust... if I didn't trust someone I certainly wouldn't be putting them in a company polo!

 

[John Benton]

Mmmm.... tricky one here Jonny.......

I've never been asked to do this but I would be very wary. Look at it this way. The job's not even started yet and they want to deceive the customer, that's a fact. How do you think it would be when things go wrong. Do you think further down the line if something were to go wrong they'd be giving you their t-shirts to wear and turn up in a company van. I reckon you'd be on your own with them saying to the customer, "speak to John Clarke, he's the guy who fixed the tiles" !!!

 

[Spud]

what seems to be the issue here Jonny is the fact that the person who asked you to do this is trying to hide the fact you are a subbie by asking you to leave your van eslewhere etc it has come across that they are trying to deceive their customer , its a bad place to start a new relationship with you it would have been far better for them to introduce you as you are ,if you arrived in your own van you could have been introduced as their number 1 go to choice of stone installer for such a prestigious job and you are the expert on this particular stone etc most companies need to use subbies from time to time and most clients are happy as long as they get the job they are paying for

 

[Spud]

Jonny I just checked out their website and to be honest I think they are punching well above their weight asking you to work for them, your too good for them

 

[jonnyc]

what seems to be the issue here Jonny is the fact that the person who asked you to do this is trying to hide the fact you are a subbie by asking you to leave your van eslewhere etc it has come across that they are trying to deceive their customer , its a bad place to start a new relationship with you it would have been far better for them to introduce you as you are ,if you arrived in your own van you could have been introduced as their number 1 go to choice of stone installer for such a prestigious job and you are the expert on this particular stone etc most companies need to use subbies from time to time and most clients are happy as long as they get the job they are paying for

gary this exactly how i feel .
the other stone companies are not embarassed to introduce me as their subcontractor and i think they make a point of saying that i am the specialsit they use for the particular job in question.
icant stand this deceiving thing. it can only end in problems some time down the line.

 

[jonnyc]

Jonny I just checked out their website and to be honest I think they are punching well above their weight asking you to work for them, your too good for them

Of course you know who the company is as i told you i was going down to cotswolds but please dont reveal who they are.
way i see it is they call themselves stone brokers on site and no mention of fixing service.
i just think they have seen an opportunity to possibly use me who was recommended to them to sort of represent them as the fixing side.
i can just see that i would not be just supplying a fixing service to them but being their spokesperson and first point of call for fixing/adice related enquiries.

 

[jonnyc]

agree with you there john entirely. imagine what a mess it would be if i was asked to say i was an employee and something went wrong in fix or supply.
cant see myself getting much back up

 

[jonnyc]

Ahh there is a difference between asking somebody to wear their company logo'd workware whilst on site and asking them to lie about their employment status.

It does sound like your guy is pretending to be something they are not. What with meetings in car parks and using stolen images, I say stolen images but if you were recommended by the firm that the images came from, is a possibility that this firm had a hand in it? i.e design or supply.

I don't think it's a case of trust... if I didn't trust someone I certainly wouldn't be putting them in a company polo!

agree w ith your last point . they would not let me loose in thier company shirt would they if they did not trust me .
definitely nothing going on betwen the two companies. My usual supplier of work was as shocked as me that thier stone had appeared on this company website that approached me.
my old stone supplier company had been sold off some time ago but that still does not excuse someone else nicking a full page spread from their very fancy stone brochure!!!

 

[John Benton]

agree with you there john entirely. imagine what a mess it would be if i was asked to say i was an employee and something went wrong in fix or supply.
cant see myself getting much back up

I think you would be on your own there John. A wise decision would be to step back from this one and not get involved in it. If they are prepared to put other peoples work on their site purporting to be carried out by them then who knows what levels they could stoop to!!!

 

[jonnyc]

You're right.
i actually don't need the work.
there did seem to be opportunity which appealed as I have made the Cotswolds my choice of stay away jobs since I decided to give up the work abroad because we all have young children now and appeal not the same.
but I already have a great source of work there and I get work as a supposed specialist who comes from the big city or there abouts.
we all treat this as bit of a laugh but it keeps clients happy

 

[Pebbs]

Jonny, I sub some work out to a friend of mine who solely does restoration, so he helps me out, and vice versa. He's got his clients, I have mine, but we never step on each others toes. I am going with him to look at a job on Monday, but he is picking me up in the van, and when he comes to look at some of my jobs, I do the same for him...(not in the van...for some reason the lads dont trust me driving it...cant think why!). When his clients ask do I work for him, I just reply yes from time to time...that normally surfices.

Meeting him in a carpark and wearing his shirts? WTF does this man think he is playing at. The upshot is he is not confident enough to go and look at the job himself, so he is relying heavily on you and your knowledge. With that in mind I would have asked for a day rate plus milage, and no you dont want to be working for him, because he doesnt sound like he has a clue what he is doing.

As for the photos, ring him up and tell him straight. Like you have said you don't need the work, but that is not the point, he is a chancer...who can talk the talk but not actually walk the walk.

Good luck, and get him to take those photos down...disgraceful.

Lynn

 

[jonnyc]

Your second paragraph sums my thoughts up well Lynn. In fact I was thinking of you when I let the owner know what I thought of the proposal.

 

[jonnyc]

who said the owner was male!!

 

[jonnyc]

whilst on subject of so called specialists, lynn i have had to have a chuckle about the latest floor i have laid on a job in hampstead.
For the most part im out of this mullarkey in london but this job has been a reminder of what i used to do alot.
designer wanted to stain carrara marble diamonds 180 x 90 mm point to point to make them look old.
i gave him the number of a specialist in this field but he decided to use a plasterers trough and dunk the standard carrara tiles precut in bath for a determined time in a vat of tea!!
not sure what tea he used but this could be very important could it not.
i am a tea drinker but what the hell does he think he is doing.
apparently every layer of tiles were submerged in a luxuriant bath of chosen tea and submerged time was constant for each layer introduced to the mix.

 

[jonnyc]

theres a logic with timing submerging of each set of tiles.
so we start bedding them and within minutes the tile is changing colour dramatically to dirty brown on some and clean on others.
must be some reaction between water/adhesive and tannin in the staining of marble.
who knows but i have been adament from outset that i would have nothing to do with staining marble .
is anyone an expert on tannin staining an how affected by moisture or other factors.
this is a weird one

 

[John Benton]

whilst on subject of so called specialists, lynn i have had to have a chuckle about the latest floor i have laid on a job in hampstead.
For the most part im out of this mullarkey in london but this job has been a reminder of what i used to do alot.
designer wanted to stain carrara marble diamonds 180 x 90 mm point to point to make them look old.
i gave him the number of a specialist in this field but he decided to use a plasterers trough and dunk the standard carrara tiles precut in bath for a determined time in a vat of tea!!
not sure what tea he used but this could be very important could it not.
i am a tea drinker but what the hell does he think he is doing.
apparently every layer of tiles were submerged in a luxuriant bath of chosen tea and submerged time was constant for each layer introduced to the mix.

Is this the job when you asked about antiquing marble tiles Jonny and I said get a specialist in?


For a finer cup of tea

 

[jonnyc]

yes it is the same job and i did finda so called specialist and passed the info on.
sometimes wonder why i bother.
i am now thinking that its the quality of tea that could make the difference!!
exactly why i didnt want to get involved.
as an aside my mother was mr twinings personal secretary in the 1950/60s and im sure she would be horrified if i told her that someone might be doing a brew in a plastersers bucket in this day and age .

 

[John Benton]

yes it is the same job and i did finda so called specialist and passed the info on.
sometimes wonder why i bother.
i am now thinking that its the quality of tea that could make the difference!!
exactly why i didnt want to get involved.
as an aside my mother was mr twinings personal secretary in the 1950/60s and im sure she would be horrified if i told her that someone might be doing a brew in a plastersers bucket in this day and age .

China cup served out of silver teapot for me :lol:

Nearly put a Twinings image up but thought I would stay local