Why not use ready mixed adhesive?

[mikeyb2]

Hi Forum, just bought some 100x100mm tiles from B&Q to do the kitchen bits from worktop to wall cupboards 450mm height. The tiles on display had a sticker on them saying use only powder adhesive, not ready mixed. I asked an assistant who said it probably would be alright to use ready mixed but wasn't sure. Nowhere on the packaging does it mention this, and the tiles are not natural stone and don't look like porcelain.Any ideas on this would be welcome.
Secondly, as I was browsing the adhesives the preparation advice suggests removing paint from surfaces before applying, on some adhesives but not on others.I am putting these tiles onto recently plastered walls which have been emulsioned, so they are perfectly flat. Is it really necessary to remove the paint or are there some adhesives that would be ok?
thanks Mike

 

[Dontiler]

remove the paint, you can do that with coarse sandpaper, prime the walls. make sure plaster is dry,
I wouldn't use ready mixed adhesive.
good luck

 

[DHTiling]

Hi mike...

Seen as tubbed adhesive dries by dispersion ( loses it moisture into substrate and tile biscuit) and keys onto the surface capillaries , then yes sand back the emulsion... sometimes a wetting with a sponge and then scrub with a scotch pad brings it off..depends on how many coats and paint type.

As for your tiles, then they might be moisture sensitive and using a slow setting tubbed adhesive might cause staining to the tile from the biscuit through to the face... if it say's to use powdered then use it IMHO.. and flat back skim each tile in-case they are moisture sensitive... but with out actually knowing or seeing the tile, then it is hard to say why they advise this..

 

[mikeyb2]

Hi mike...

Seen as tubbed adhesive dries by dispersion ( loses it moisture into substrate and tile biscuit) and keys onto the surface capillaries , then yes sand back the emulsion... sometimes a wetting with a sponge and then scrub with a scotch pad brings it off..depends on how many coats and paint type.

As for your tiles, then they might be moisture sensitive and using a slow setting tubbed adhesive might cause staining to the tile from the biscuit through to the face... if it say's to use powdered then use it IMHO.. and flat back skim each tile in-case they are moisture sensitive... but with out actually knowing or seeing the tile, then it is hard to say why they advise this..

thanks for the replies, so i think I'll sand back the paint. I'm not sure about the dispersion thing though, as powdered adhesive dries by dispersion once you have mixed it with water and if the tiles are water sensitive, surely neither tubbed nor powder would do. Or am I missing something here?

 

[DHTiling]

Powdered adhesive dries by chemical hydration and this can be dry in as little as 2 hrs.. tubbed adhesive will take a min of 24 hrs.. so the tiles are subject to moisture a lot longer...hence moisture can soak back into the tile over a longer period... but i will say that if the tiles are ceramic, then really little chance of this being a concern... just needed to point this out though..

 

[Muse2k8]

Just play it safe and get some powder

 

[mikeyb2]

Powdered adhesive dries by chemical hydration and this can be dry in as little as 2 hrs.. tubbed adhesive will take a min of 24 hrs.. so the tiles are subject to moisture a lot longer...hence moisture can soak back into the tile over a longer period... but i will say that if the tiles are ceramic, then really little chance of this being a concern... just needed to point this out though..

thanks Dave, that makes a little more sense so I'll take your advice and go the powder route. Is there a Powder you could recommend which would be suitable for most materials regardless of what the tiles are made of?( I've seen some that are for ceramic only and some porcelain etc.)

 

[Muse2k8]

What colour are the tiles?

 

[mikeyb2]

What colour are the tiles?

they're called metallic cream but more of a light beige to me.

 

[Muse2k8]

I would suggest BAL CTF3 (White) adhesive.

 

[Dan]

Fairly typical of B&Q that, just look on the box. It never ever says on the box what you fix the tile with. So not sure why they'd look on the box. It rarely even says the tile name on the box unless it's on a sticker that's been added before shipping.

 

[mikeyb2]

Fairly typical of B&Q that, just look on the box. It never ever says on the box what you fix the tile with. So not sure why they'd look on the box. It rarely even says the tile name on the box unless it's on a sticker that's been added before shipping.

took a tile in today to the Topps man who said it's just an ordinary ceramic tile and said Bal Green star ready mixed would be alright, so preferring to use ready stuff if I can , was wondering what the Mapei(Buildfix at B&Q) Ultimate Grab would be like as it's a lot cheaper than the Bal.
The Bal Green Star says on the tub it can be used on most substrates including paint, so maybe would save me a bit of work getting the emulsion off. Would the Mapei Ultimate Grab be ok over paint also?(I have scored the surface with rough sandpaper,but would take a lot of work to get it off completely and my arthritis won't take it!)

 

[Muse2k8]

Go for the bal green star if you want a ready mixed, remember you get what you pay for.

I would still key the paint before using though, just rough it up, to make sure the adhesive sticks.

However we can only advise you on what we think is best.

 

[Bolter]

Bostik Bostik OPF - One Part Flexible - Cement based, polymer enhanced tile adhesive

this stuff is excellent, good pot life, sets in 24 hours, but you'd be hard pushed to move the tile after it has been laid for 10 minutes. Easily searchable stockists on google.

 

[mikeyb2]

Go for the bal green star if you want a ready mixed, remember you get what you pay for.

I would still key the paint before using though, just rough it up, to make sure the adhesive sticks.

However we can only advise you on what we think is best.

I appreciate the advice and I'm sure your right, but being an amateur on a budget I'm looking for the easy way and cheapest without compromising on the quality, that's why I ask about the Mapei stuff after reading so much praise for their products on this forum. The Green Star is £19.99 for 15kg and the Mapei is about £12 for 15kg so quite a big difference.
Thanks again for your input.

 

[Ajax123]

Why on earth would you go ready mixed. You can buy good quality powders for significantly less. Powders are much easier to work with......i too am an amateur so want things cheap and easy. B and Q have very good prices for diyers......personally wouldnt touch topps without a good trade account as thier shelf prices are horribly expensive.

 

[Muse2k8]

I appreciate the advice and I'm sure your right, but being an amateur on a budget I'm looking for the easy way and cheapest without compromising on the quality, that's why I ask about the Mapei stuff after reading so much praise for their products on this forum. The Green Star is £19.99 for 15kg and the Mapei is about £12 for 15kg so quite a big difference.
Thanks again for your input.

Yeah Mapei is good stuff... I just prefer Bal lol.

I would say the Bal was better but your doing a kitchen splash back where there will be no stress or abuse, no water and your tiles are 100mm x 100mm...

Mapei will do the job too just don't go for anything cheap such as B&Q all in one adhesive and grout. And for the love of god do not buy ready made grout. Definitely use powder for that!

And we will want pics

 

[mikeyb2]

Why on earth would you go ready mixed. You can buy good quality powders for significantly less. Powders are much easier to work with......i too am an amateur so want things cheap and easy. B and Q have very good prices for diyers......personally wouldnt touch topps without a good trade account as thier shelf prices are horribly expensive.

Or, to put it another way. Why on earth would you want to mess about mixing your own, if ready mixed works ok? As for Topps, I had to go there to ask advice after speaking to clueless assistants at B & Q, and obviously then went back to B & Q to buy it.(sorry Topps)

 

[DHTiling]

Problem solved, use ready mixed then.

 

[Perry]

Well between BQ and Topps i would go for Dougs dog he may have a little more idea whatever you do dont ask Dave not to sure how much he knows

 

[DHTiling]

seems we know nowt pete.. ...

 

[Ajax123]

Crazy crazy crazy ...... Oh well!

 

[DHTiling]

Crazy crazy crazy ...... Oh well!

I feel a song coming on Al.. ~:lol:

 

[Ajax123]

Hehe. Got a few to post

 

[Discount Tile Supplies]

All ceramic tiles have a product (engobe) in them that stops water coming up through to the glaze surface, you see a lack of it sometimes on white tiles, like a darker clouding effect, specially when dot and dabbed using ready mixed adhesives.

If a manufacturer uses less of this engobe in producing the tiles it saves them money and they can sell them cheaper.(good for them and B&Q but not good for tiler)

Imo it would be better to use an adhesive that dries quicker and differently to bucket i.e. a powder adhesive not a ready mixed one. This may be why they are telling u to use it.

Dave i reckon you got it spot on!
If it says use POWDER why use ready mixed? READ THE INSTRUCTIONS guys?:mad2: