Floor Has Tile Lippage, Wall Tiles Going Up In The Morning! Help Please!

[actionjackson]

Good evening.

I have had a tiler in for the last two days to tile my bathroom with Porcelonosa rectified tiles - 440x660 on the floor (6.5m) & 330x1000 on the walls (10m).

When the tiler quoted for the work i stressed beforehand that i was looking for an A1 job, minimal-zero lippage etc etc and was prepared to pay that little extra so he could take his time.

So....

Day 1

Tiler arrives at 0715 and we discus the floor setting out and agree on a layout. I received a call @ 1500 and the tiler tells me that we are one floor tile short! The tiler calculated the amount of tiles required and asked for 10% extra. Because of the size of the tiles i said to the tiler that i felt 10% wasn't enough but he dissagreed. In any case i ordered 20% on top but we are still one short. Porecelonossa can't deliver this until Monday! I asked if this was the last tile left to be laid (its 3pm) and he told me was having troubles cutting the tiles with his diamond blade so went away to get a water cutter. The tiler then said he will lay & grout the floor the next day and return on Monday to fit the tile. Sounds fair to me but concerned with these problems.

Day 2


Tiler arrives at 0800 when i set off for work. I arrive back home at 1900 having already spoken to the tiler. The floor is almost laid (4 tiles to lay) with no other work completed.

The first thing i noticed was the height of the floor. The bed of adhesive is 12mm height! The subfloor has electric UFH with a SLC ontop and was very flat (my father has a resin driveway business and uses SLC all the time). Is this usual? The adhesive being used is BAL SPF Rapid Set.

On inspection the floor looks ok overall but i have 2 x tiles marked as poor (2mm lippage) but thankfully they are located in a corner of the room and under the toilet so i will live with them.

However there is 3 x tiles marked out as unacceptable.

1 x tile has a 5mm grout line when it should be 2mm. Unfortunately the whole floor fluctuates between 2mm-3.5mm grout lines but i have no choice but to live with it unless we start again. This tile is at the end where the bath meets the floor so should come up ok.

2 x tiles have 2mm lippage which i can't live with. Is this understandable? One of the tiles should be easy to lift as its at the end where he hasn't finished but the other is in the middle of the room. Given i have no spares (tiler said i would have a few spares) i would like it pulled up without damage. Is this possible?

My next big question.... should i cut the job short and get someone else in to do the walls and grout?

 

[actionjackson]

No, but you could always go for Mapei Renovation screed or Latexplan...... much cheaper than Fibreplan. Fibreplan is very good stuff, but ren plan is just as good and easy to work with





Why is it putting the "good guys" off??? If they are indeed good, then this shouldnt put them off. Any pro tiler would take it in their stride. Please do not employ another amateur.... you dont need the hassle again

Will the webber floor flex do the job? I have 3 bags of it.

 

[kilty55]

is your sub floor timber?

 

[actionjackson]

is your sub floor timber?

t&G Chipboard, overboarded with Ply then Marmox concrete backer board

 

[jay]

Might pay to use one that is compatable with the original leveling compound you have used over the under floor heating

 

[actionjackson]

Might pay to use one that is compatable with the original leveling compound you have used over the under floor heating

Tilemaster have told me webber floor flex is compatable with the SLC i used.Im more concerned with the minimum build height.

 

[kilty55]

i would buy renovation screed,goes from 3mm upwards

i have used weber flex before but would only use it up from 10mm as advised if it was my job since your sub floor is timber,thats just me though

cant you swap it

 

[plan-it-earth]

There is no excuse for lippage, there are spacers available (although expensive) that avoid lippage. As you were offering to pay extra for a good job, the spacers would have been only a few pounds extra on the job. If your floor had been stone, it could have sorted out your lips but not with porcelain i'm affraid.

 

[actionjackson]

Update: (pics to follow tomorrow)

Good evening

Another layer of SLC was applied to the floor on Sunday morning, in anticipation of another tiler quoting mid-afternoon and not wanting him see the state of the floor.

The leveling went very well and was perfect (all the practice we have had :lol: ) and the tiler said it was the best he has ever seen so no excuses for a bad job.

The tiler gave me great confidence with his approach and understanding of the situation so i awarded him the work. He realized that the tiles were already cut so had to be laid in an identical layout but agreed that lippage and grout lines had to be spot on. He is also registered with the local council as a certified trader and he is also an "inactive" member on this site so all good signs in my eyes.

Day 1 (Tuesday)
I arrived home late Tuesday night to a fully laid floor. After inspection i found 6 x tiles to have lippage in excess of 2mm!! There are only a couple of tiles which are perfect with the rest having 0.5mm - 1mm lippage on a 2mm grout line. I couldn't believe the situation i was left in again and thought this must be a wind up and expected the camera man to jump out of the cupboard! Unfortunately it didn't happen. I picked myself off the floor and called the tiler. He agreed to drive straight round and have a look. We ended up pulling 8 x tiles taking 1.5 hrs (breaking one) as he agreed they were not acceptable. The tiler is a lovely bloke and i gave him the benifit of the doubt because for some odd reason he walked over the floor to store his tools for the night when he left for the day, even though the addhesive hadn't set??

Day 2 (Wednesday)
The floor has been finished but 2 x tiles refitted are still not acceptable with 2mm of tile lippage. The wall has 12 x tiles fitted (100x33) and 2 x tiles have terrible lippage! On a positive note grout lines are consistent throughout. I'm a grown man and have a lot of responsibility at work but this situation is getting the better of me. I haven't called the tiler because I simply can't keep having these dramas late in the evening when neighbors and family (its an apartment) are trying to relax. This is actually causing me serious grief with my partner!

I will simply put "post it" notes on the worst tiles with a note saying sort it out. Regrettably i have conceded that my bathroom dream will never be "real" and i will accept defeat. Quite sad really when i have pumped 10K of my bloody hard earned money into it and have been without a functional bathroom for 10 weeks. Another hard lesson in life.

 

[steve187]

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with another tiler.
What i can not understand is that on the wednesday, he re-layed the tiles he had messed up the previous day, but still left some knowing full well that they would be unacceptable, and then went on to fix some wall tiles,again with some unacceptable lips, either he is not capable of knowing if he is doing a good job or not, or he is taking no pride in his work.

Looking at the work he has done, do you think, he is up to giving you the standard of finished work that you require? if the answer is no, then you will have to think hard about letting him carry on, and as been posted on here, you will have to give some serious thought to doing at least the floor yourself, maybe with the help of your dad. You can not keep spending out on new tiles, and having to deal with the stress of it all.

All the best to you in your endeavors to create a nice bathroom

 

[Qwerty]

If this situation is causing you so much stress I cannot understand why you have employed another amateur. Anybody can be a member of this forum, especially an inactive member.
What references did this guy offer you?
What guarantee did he offer?
I really do hope you didn't choose the cheapest quote.
To get this mess sorted you WILL have to employ the services of a pro tiler which will cost you money.....not spare change.
Do it once do it right
Ive said everything I need to say on this thread now.

 

[jay]

any pics

 

[actionjackson]

Ifthis situation is causing you so much stress I cannot understand why you haveemployed another amateur. Anybody can be a member of this forum, especially aninactive member.
What references did this guy offer you?
What guarantee did he offer?
I really do hope you didn't choose the cheapest quote.
To get this mess sorted you WILL have to employ the services of a pro tilerwhich will cost you money.....not spare change.
Do it once do it right
Ive said everything I need to say on this thread now.

I appreciate all feedback on this forum but with due respect it’s very easy foryou to be critical of my selection process in hindsight. Why would you think I would go out of my way to choose an amateur? I have already mentioned how much money has been invested into this project. The guy has 25 years’ experience, is highly recommended by CTD and has great references on the reference line website.

He is also avery nice bloke who clearly knows what he is talking about from our conversations. This gave me enough confidence to award him the work. And for the record his rates are twice the price of the original tiler so I’m certainly not trying to do this on the cheap!

He told me his guarantee is that being a trusted trader with the council, if I’m unhappy with his work I can contact Norfolk County Council and they will send someone out. What more can I ask?

 

[jay]

Thanks for the update

 

[actionjackson]

The replacement tiller has just called me and walked off the job. Apparently my expectations are unachievable.

 

[Gazzer]

I cant believe you are having these issues, your original photos dont smack of unachievable to me, I await latest photos with anticipation.

 

[AliGage]

I really feel for your actionjackson. It's difficult to offer any more advice really without prehaps seeing the room first hand. It's really difficult to find a good trader amoungst the cowboys these days. Purely because there are so many cowboys out there. Not suggesting your new tiler is though. If you have a read at the ratedpeople.com thread on this forum you'll see how easy it actually is for anyone to advertise, quote and deliver (all be it badly) a service or trade to the public these days. It's almosta needle in a haystack situation.
I don't know wether suggesting to the forum moderators here a cowboy name and shame board? There me be one actually i've just not come across it.
Anyway, i don't think it's advantagous to you or your stress levels to put down your desicion making or slag off your current tiler. Unfortunately this is an issue whch any domestic customer could face with, like i say the amount of and ease of which a cowboy can confidently come across to someone and secure a job. With all good intentions, even if someone is an "approved fitter" by a company or council. How do they determine their approval? I know of some companys that will hand out a business card if you ask them, they don't check your work, they don't do any background checks at all. They'll hand out a business card and hide under the umbrella of "we're not affiliated with them, we just handed you a business card"

Anyway, if i was in your situation, on the perspective of being the customer here. I'd explain to your current tiler the history of issues, explain also the standard you expect from him. Ask him if he can meet this standard. If he can, be firm and set out your expectations. From the history in this post i would be suggesting something like:
"These are the issues i've had in the past, these are my expectations. Can you do that?" if the answer is yes then say "This is what is unacceptable to me, if the floor doesn't meet with my expectations i will not be paying the bill"

I think the first step forward is for customers to stand up for themselves a bit more with cowboys. The amount of jobs/quotes i've gone out to over the years where a customer has been screwed over by a cowboy and they've paid him as well. Set out what you expect at the start, if it's understood and then not carried out don't pay. It's as simple as that.

One thing that has just cropped to mind, have you installed underfloor heating? Your not running this while the tile adhesive is going off are you? I just can't understand why your tilers are struggling to lay even and level tiles on what sounds to me like a good surface to lay on. I'm just wondering wether if you have any UFH running if this is drying some areas quicker than others and maybe pulling the tiles out of "level" in the process?

Wish you all the best, sorry to hear your having so many problems.

 

[Gazzer]

We do not have a policy of "Naming and shaming"

 

[AliGage]

We do not have a policy of "Naming and shaming"

What do you think to the idea? Something that could be put in place on this forum prehaps? A lot of traffic comes through this forum be good if we managed to put an end to one or two cowboys being out.

 

[Gazzer]

What do you think to the idea? Something that could be put in place on this forum prehaps? A lot of traffic comes through this forum be good if we managed to put an end to one or two cowboys being out.

No, we have discussed this before.

 

[kilty55]

......day 1 a floor has been laid in a bathroom and day 2, 12 tiles were fitted?

not a lot of work going on there to be honest action,what is the meterage 16 metres the bathroom in total? maximum 3 day job this should really be finished completely.

sounds like yet another dud if he cant deliver this is a bread and butter job action you are doing to a pro tiler

 

[kilty55]

im not sure if price is a factor here to be honest action,but because a shop or a council recommends someone unfortunately it doesnt mean they are any good imo

im not sure what else i can advise to help you find your tiler,however there are many good tilers out there who would have no troubles at all with your project ,

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

this floor should have been tiled and finnshed in one day if you tile the floor first you could damage it tileing the walls seem to be working back to front to me cut your loss get another tiler try to see their work first ask for ref good tilers dont mind nothing to hide

 

[dave l and l]

i would tile floor first if there was underfloor heating mat down. then cover it, i would like to see pics of the last guys attempt so we can judge for ourselves. best way to find tiler is word of mouth from a friend, then if you can go and have look,.have none of your neighbours had work done you could knock on there door and enquire.
when you finally get someone i think you be onsite when the work is going on

 

[Stef]

this floor should have been tiled and finnshed in one day if you tile the floor first you could damage it tileing the walls seem to be working back to front to me cut your loss get another tiler try to see their work first ask for ref good tilers dont mind nothing to hide

The floor should be tiled first irrespective if UFH is fitted or not.
A pro tiler will only on a very rare occasion damage a floor tile when tiling the walls.

I cant believe you are having this trouble again with another tiler.
Even if they say they have 25 years experience then it counts for nothing if they have never tiled right in the 1st place.

I had a guy with 25year experience advising my friend that you PVA tiles before tiling on top of tiles!! :mad2:

I hope you get this situation sorted eventually.

 

[actionjackson]

 

[Stef]

Its better than the last attempt but its still not good enough im afraid.

these are porcelanosa for gods sake, they are some of the best tiles you can buy, there is absolutely no excuse for lipping on these tiles.

This is what gives our trade a bad name.

 

[kilty55]

floors poor......in regards to your walls is the wall with the towel rail hanging getting done? why did the tiler not ask for it to be removed? if its getting tiled of course im only assuming

 

[kilty55]

i also cant get my head round why he has started the wall tiling there? maybe its just me

 

[kilty55]

anyway it doesnt matter now,,,floors poor as said are you going to get another tiler in action?

 

[kilty55]

have you considered googling tilers in your area and having a look at website feedbacks etc ?