Advice on porcelain tile movement. Grout coming out of tiles.

Waluigi · Nov 28, 2018

When the tiles start to pop and crack the customers friends won’t be asking who did the prep work, they’ll be asking who tiled the floor.

J Sid · Nov 28, 2018

jcrtiling said:
Don't really know what to say apart from no and leg it

if he doesn't give it to me in writing what he has done and what materials he has used, and they are fixed as per manufacturer instructions then I will have to leave it.
a week of maybe next week.

Bathfix Bob · Nov 28, 2018

Plenty of people using ply still, only today at a builders merchants I saw a tiler in a shiny new van loading up sheets of 6mm ply, heard them talking words to effect of get this down this morning etc.
They had a Dewalt nailer aswell.

Brian the Tile · Nov 28, 2018

Bathfix Bob said:
Plenty of people using ply still, only today at a builders merchants I saw a tiler in a shiny new van loading up sheets of 6mm ply, heard them talking words to effect of get this down this morning etc.
They had a Dewalt nailer aswell.

I happen to be one of them tilers that still tiles on ply but not on 6mm (you might as well put cardboard down) surprising how many builders merchants sell it for floor tiling i always refuse ,i have never had a problem with the right thickness as long as it is laid correctly and the right adhesive and grout is used = no problems

Waluigi · Nov 28, 2018

Thinking about it. If I wanted to go and buy some ply for tiling tomorrow, I’d go and visit carpets and flooring in Camberley branch and buy some SP101. The only problem is that I think the thickest they stock is 9mm so I’d travel up the road to Buy some marine ply from Selco. Just checked. They only do 18mm and that’s £84 per sheet. I’ll stick with a TBB.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Sorry for the late reply been trying to get it resolved with Christmas coming up and finally there’s a new tiler on the job. He is planning on taking it back to a blank canvas and using hardiebacker boards. The tiles are now lifted which was an easy job as apparently the adhesive hadn’t took to the tiles. I will attach some pictures of how it looks with the tiles lifted and what was underneath so far, if it is of any help or interest to anyone. Obviously everything isn’t visible yet but how it was laid was the first layer is ply then some sort of thermal primer put onto ply using a roller, heat mats, screed? and adhesive and finally tiles and grout.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Boggs · Dec 1, 2018

Unbelievable!

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Boggs said:
To be fair we don’t know if they have used ply wood.
It might be No More Ply.

Did the original trades test the floor heating before the tiles where laid and did they let the floor cool down before tiling?
Or was the floor heating tested too soon after tiling by mistake.

Hi thanks for your reply just to answer some questions. It was definitely ply as the joiner was project managing the full thing and bringing in the other tradesmen etc and it was the joiner who laid the ply and told us it was 6mm ply wood. Also advised us that British standards didn’t apply to our floor due to it being built up to at least minimum 12mm with the heat mats and screed. So as the tiles weren’t directly laid onto the 6mm ply wood it didn’t count basically. Also no nobody tested the heat mats infact 2 of them arent even live yet as tiles started popping and the electrician said from his point of view it was pointless connecting them up as the floor would need to come back up.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Boggs said:
Unbelievable!

Sorry if I’m sounding stupid here but I know absolutely nothing about tiling so I’m having to basically take their word for everything. From what you can see in the pictures what would be your professional opinion. Thanks in advance.

Spare Tool · Dec 1, 2018

Its wrong from the ply upwards, the 6mm ply is doing absolutely nothing, there should be insulation boards below the ufheating, hardibaker would be ok but 10 or 12mm insulation boards glued and screwed would be better IMHO, the mats should have then been leveled over to make a flat (even if not level) floor to tile to, using flexible materials throughout.
Can't understand why the previous tiler would notch trowel the floor then daub a few blobs of adhesive down and plop a tile on, its no wonder it a catastrophic failure..

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Andystiletiling said:
Its wrong from the ply upwards, the 6mm ply is doing absolutely nothing, there should be insulation boards below the ufheating, hardibaker would be ok but 10 or 12mm insulation boards glued and screwed would be better IMHO, the mats should have then been leveled over to make a flat (even if not level) floor to tile to, using flexible materials throughout.
Can't understand why the previous tiler would notch trowel the floor then daub a few blobs of adhesive down and plop a tile on, its no wonder it a catastrophic failure..

Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain how things should be done and what has gone wrong. It’s took us over 8 weeks just to finally convince the guy who was the project manager that the floor needed lifted and redone. The only problem was I didn’t know what actually had to be done or what was wrong, just that the floor right through the downstairs of the house was a mess and falling apart like a domino effect.

Spare Tool · Dec 1, 2018

Wonkyfloor said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain how things should be done and what has gone wrong. It’s took us over 8 weeks just to finally convince the guy who was the project manager that the floor needed lifted and redone. The only problem was I didn’t know what actually had to be done or what was wrong, just that the floor right through the downstairs of the house was a mess and falling apart like a domino effect.

Would think its failed so quickly because of the blobs of adhesive, but would probably have all failed eventually due to the under lying prep starting with the ply..

Boggs · Dec 1, 2018

This is the perfect example of poor workmanship.
Poor prep, no back skim and dot and dab.
As has been said above bound to fail from the ply up.
Still a bit odd that the adhesive hasn’t taken to the tiles at all though.

Wonkyfloor · Dec 1, 2018

Boggs said:
This is the perfect example of poor workmanship.
Poor prep, no back skim and dot and dab.
As has been said above bound to fail from the ply up.
Still a bit odd that the adhesive hasn’t taken to the tiles at all though.

That’s what confused me as I thought regardless of how bad the workmanship was adhesive would still stick. This is only one room that has been lifted so far. Still to see the rest but I imagine it can’t be any worse than what has been seen today.
But one thing that has baffled me is do you have any idea as to why some of the floor is a dark grey then the other section of the floor is a lighter colour?
Also going to try be a bit more observant this time round, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated of what I should be looking out for. Today hardiebacker boards have now been screwed down in living room and as far as I have managed to gather the plan is underfloor heating mats will be laid on top of these boards and then tiles fitted on top of the mats.
Thanks very much for all advice on this thread as my husband is working and it’s myself trying to deal with it. I get the feeling that they don’t want to explain anything to me and any concern i raise are basically disregarded. Pretty much the same as when I questioned the 6mm ply and was told that it didn’t apply to my floor due to it being built up with underfloor heating and screed so they weren’t laying directly on top of the ply wood. Sorry for bombarding yourself and the thread but I’m just feeling out of my depth now to be honest.

Waluigi

J Sid

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Waluigi

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Spare Tool

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Spare Tool

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