Advice on porcelain tile movement. Grout coming out of tiles.

[Wonkyfloor]

the last photo looks like he has overboarded the dots of adhesive.

It’s all getting a bit confusing as to how many layers you have. Whatever happens, you can’t just screw a bit of board onto dots of adhesive and hope for the best. Shortsighted thinking. There is no quick fix to this. No magic board. Just logic and manufacturers instructions.

I’ve also lost count of how many layers I have. The full situation is just a nightmare just wanted it fixed and have what we paid for especially with having kids in the house in the run up to Christmas. Some people don’t have a heart it seems. Thank you for taking the time to reply I genuinely do appreciate each and every bit of help I am getting.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

It doesn’t look as though there is any adhesive/levelling material under any of those ‘pads’ thus creating voids.

I think they have just screwed the boards on top of what was already there. So my concern is we’re just going to have the same issue if the job is done using this method.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

If there is any movement due to the voids, the screw heads will just pull through as they haven’t used any washers.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Wt absolute hell (public forum) is going on...nomoreply just screwed over old adhesive UFH and 6mm ply... Seriously time to get these idiots out of your house and employ someone that knows what they're doing..

I wish I could afford to get them out now but the amount of money we have paid out for the full downstairs renovation I couldn’t even afford to get someone in to sort this. Which is why I am basically at the project managers mercy he offered to refund £3000 but that wouldn’t even cover the original job starting from a blank canvas never mind someone having to come in now at this stage and rectify all the issues before even beginning to add the cost of them starting from scratch again.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

If there is any movement due to the voids, the screw heads will just pull through as they haven’t used any washers.

When walking on it just now I can feel movement. The best way I can describe it is it’s like there’s almost a bounce in the floor when waking across the boards that have been put down today.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Get everything in writing ie offers etc as you may need evidence of guilt further down the line.
No movement is required.

 

[Spare Tool]

It needs taking back to original floor and starting a fresh from there, no ifs or buts..

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Get everything in writing ie offers etc as you may need evidence of guilt further down the line.

A lot of the communication has been done via text message including the original price we were being charged for the floor. Would they not doubt would I have to get them to physically put everything down on paper? Again sorry for all the questions and bombarding the thread but we’re over £20,000 down on this project and around £5000 of that went originally on paying him for the tiles and paying the tiler. Now he’s offering £3000 when there’s much more work involved now than when we had bare floorboards.

 

[Waluigi]

I would get a couple of professionals round to give you a full written quote to give you the finished product you would like including all remedial works. Then try to offset some of the cost by getting as much back from this builder as possible. Honestly I wouldn’t entertain the idea of him doing any more work for you. He’s well out of his depth. Whoever is doing the work is trying his best but in reality doesn’t have the first idea of what he is doing.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

It needs taking back to original floor and starting a fresh from there, no ifs or buts..

I just need to get him to agree to that as he said he wasn’t willing to pay any more than £3000 to either us on a refund or on him fixing it then when he got the new tiler in he apparently upped it slightly ‘to get it done right’ so I don’t see him agreeing to paying out more money on getting all they new boards back up and stripping that back to bare. I don’t know how I can make him do what needs to be done no matter what sounds so pathetic in the grand scheme of things but he’s ruining my children’s run up to Christmas and that’s what I hate most about this whole situation.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Are they anticipating using the original tiles again? Can you get more tiles for replacements? Try to get your original tiling costs back or as near to as possible. What part of the UK are you based - there may be a forum member who may be able to assist.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Are they anticipating using the original tiles again? Can you get more tiles for replacements? Try to get your original tiling costs back or as near to as possible. What part of the UK are you based - there may be a forum member who may be able to assist.

No they are replacing all tiles with new ones. They were trying to use existing tiles but we refused as some have chipped where they’ve been popping up and kids stepping on the edges to try keep their balance when a tile has came up. We are in Glasgow.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

I would get a couple of professionals round to give you a full written quote to give you the finished product you would like including all remedial works. Then try to offset some of the cost by getting as much back from this builder as possible. Honestly I wouldn’t entertain the idea of him doing any more work for you. He’s well out of his depth. Whoever is doing the work is trying his best but in reality doesn’t have the first idea of what he is doing.

This is great advice thank you again. Will look into some tilers i’m just feeling like it’s so hard to know who to trust now after this experience. And it’s even harder when they can talk the talk and it sounds good to me because I’m the first to admit when it comes to trade talk it means nothing to me. Wish I had just joined the forum and been brave enough to ask questions sooner. will maybe have to ask husband to take some time off work or arrange my dad to be here. You are all truly a great bunch of people I must be boring you all to tears but words can’t explain how thankful I am to you all for taking time out of your day/night to advise me and arm me with some great knowledge that I would never have known without the help of this forum.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

If you accepted the 3k would they include all the materials on top - tiles adhesive grout boards ....?

 

[Wonkyfloor]

If you accepted the 3k would they include all the materials on top - tiles adhesive grout boards ....?

No 3k and leave it to us to sort out tiles, materials and a tiler and which also would mean I then need joiners in to replace skirtings door frames etc that have been removed to get the tiles up. As it is the joiner who is the project manager. The original tiler has changed numbers etc so no money can be reclaimed from him either.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Small claims court maybe your best option!
Action against whoever you paid the money directly too.
Who took up the tiles?

 

[Boggs]

What’s happening with the UFH, are they installing more on top of this?

With what they have done with the No More Ply indicates they have no idea what they are doing so I would stop any further work if I was you.

It really annoys me when “tradesmen” try to get out of their obligations with part refunds, if they are not competent then a full refund should be given. Better still they shouldn’t attempt the work in the first place.

 

[WetSaw]

It's probably getting tight to get things sorted properly before Christmas as I think you need to stop this work now and get a proper refund which may mean getting legal.
I'd put some cheap cord carpet over those boards, enjoy your Christmas with your family then attack this with renewed vigor in the new year.
You didn't pay the original "tiler" directly so your contract isn't with him, it's the project manager.

 

[J Sid]

get whoever is going to do the work, or even a new tiler to do a complete method statement, materials and fixing method. Then take pics as the job progresses.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Small claims court maybe your best option!
Action against whoever you paid the money directly too.
Who took up the tiles?

The agreement was we would have the new tiler take up all tiles and existing adhesive, underfloor heating etc until we had a blank canvas and that the joiner would come over first in the morning and take of skirtings door frames etc to allow this to happen.
Yesterday the joiners show up and remove skirtings etc but then started lifting tiles also. So by the time the new tiler arrived there wasn’t too many left for him to lift. Plus they stayed and continued helping (trying to save money again I think).

Then what has confused me even more is I had a conversation with my new tiler on my own without joiner present on Wednesday. Tiler was adamant about how this job had to be done ie everything ripped out and hardiebacker boards used on floorboards. Then yesterday when he was going to get materials the joiners went with him stayed with him all day and were helping put the boards down. So what has changed from his attitude on Wednesday that he’s not putting his name to the floor unless it’s done the way we all agreed, to them basically escorting him around yesterday? Is it more money saving on their part and he thinks he’ll be able to a decent job with the restrictions still? I think this is a question I have to get answered directly from the tiler.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

What’s happening with the UFH, are they installing more on top of this?

With what they have done with the No More Ply indicates they have no idea what they are doing so I would stop any further work if I was you.

It really annoys me when “tradesmen” try to get out of their obligations with part refunds, if they are not competent then a full refund should be given. Better still they shouldn’t attempt the work in the first place.

Yes they said tiler will be here Monday to do ‘his bit’ whatever that means is anyone’s guess at the moment as I wasn’t told. But what I was told, are that the joiners are planning on putting new heat mats down on Monday night. But at the moment no work will be happening as I need answers. Based on all this information I’m gathering now from all of you, I feel a bit more confident in holding my own and not basically being shut up as if I don’t know what I’m talking about.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

get whoever is going to do the work, or even a new tiler to do a complete method statement, materials and fixing method. Then take pics as the job progresses.

Thank you I will ask for this tomorrow morning. As it stands just now it seems no more work will be moving forward while the floor looks like this!

 

[Wonkyfloor]

It's probably getting tight to get things sorted properly before Christmas as I think you need to stop this work now and get a proper refund which may mean getting legal.
I'd put some cheap cord carpet over those boards, enjoy your Christmas with your family then attack this with renewed vigor in the new year.
You didn't pay the original "tiler" directly so your contract isn't with him, it's the project manager.

It’s all down to money rather than doing the job right but to me. But going with everyone’s opinion on the work so far it’s not going to work and will just cost them more to end up doing it right in the end. I don’t know how this works but surely if money is genuinely tight on his part for repairs and he’s having to cut corners then he should have some sort of insurance that could be claimed for the funds needed for the work?

 

[Boggs]

Stick to your guns on this.
The only way to ensure this is done correctly is to remove everything back to original sub floor.

If it’s No More Ply being used it must be installed as per the instructions provided here.

If it’s Hardie Backer then see here.
https://www.jameshardie.co.uk/import/Documents/HardieBacker Product & Installation Guide.pdf

Any levelling compound used must be suitable for timber floors.

Tiles should be fixed with notched trowel and back of the tiles to be back skimmed to aid adhesion.

Good luck.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@Boggs - I think there is a lot more to it then your post!