Advice on porcelain tile movement. Grout coming out of tiles.

[Spare Tool]

Its wrong from the ply upwards, the 6mm ply is doing absolutely nothing, there should be insulation boards below the ufheating, hardibaker would be ok but 10 or 12mm insulation boards glued and screwed would be better IMHO, the mats should have then been leveled over to make a flat (even if not level) floor to tile to, using flexible materials throughout.
Can't understand why the previous tiler would notch trowel the floor then daub a few blobs of adhesive down and plop a tile on, its no wonder it a catastrophic failure..

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Its wrong from the ply upwards, the 6mm ply is doing absolutely nothing, there should be insulation boards below the ufheating, hardibaker would be ok but 10 or 12mm insulation boards glued and screwed would be better IMHO, the mats should have then been leveled over to make a flat (even if not level) floor to tile to, using flexible materials throughout.
Can't understand why the previous tiler would notch trowel the floor then daub a few blobs of adhesive down and plop a tile on, its no wonder it a catastrophic failure..

Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain how things should be done and what has gone wrong. It’s took us over 8 weeks just to finally convince the guy who was the project manager that the floor needed lifted and redone. The only problem was I didn’t know what actually had to be done or what was wrong, just that the floor right through the downstairs of the house was a mess and falling apart like a domino effect.

 

[Spare Tool]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and explain how things should be done and what has gone wrong. It’s took us over 8 weeks just to finally convince the guy who was the project manager that the floor needed lifted and redone. The only problem was I didn’t know what actually had to be done or what was wrong, just that the floor right through the downstairs of the house was a mess and falling apart like a domino effect.

Would think its failed so quickly because of the blobs of adhesive, but would probably have all failed eventually due to the under lying prep starting with the ply..

 

[Boggs]

This is the perfect example of poor workmanship.
Poor prep, no back skim and dot and dab.
As has been said above bound to fail from the ply up.
Still a bit odd that the adhesive hasn’t taken to the tiles at all though.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

This is the perfect example of poor workmanship.
Poor prep, no back skim and dot and dab.
As has been said above bound to fail from the ply up.
Still a bit odd that the adhesive hasn’t taken to the tiles at all though.

That’s what confused me as I thought regardless of how bad the workmanship was adhesive would still stick. This is only one room that has been lifted so far. Still to see the rest but I imagine it can’t be any worse than what has been seen today.
But one thing that has baffled me is do you have any idea as to why some of the floor is a dark grey then the other section of the floor is a lighter colour?
Also going to try be a bit more observant this time round, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated of what I should be looking out for. Today hardiebacker boards have now been screwed down in living room and as far as I have managed to gather the plan is underfloor heating mats will be laid on top of these boards and then tiles fitted on top of the mats.
Thanks very much for all advice on this thread as my husband is working and it’s myself trying to deal with it. I get the feeling that they don’t want to explain anything to me and any concern i raise are basically disregarded. Pretty much the same as when I questioned the 6mm ply and was told that it didn’t apply to my floor due to it being built up with underfloor heating and screed so they weren’t laying directly on top of the ply wood. Sorry for bombarding yourself and the thread but I’m just feeling out of my depth now to be honest.

 

[Spare Tool]

Your last 'tiler' has changed adhesive from white to grey..probably ran out half way though using all those dabs..
The hardi boards need a bed of tile adhesive under them before screwing down staggered and all joints taped and skimmed with adhesive.. Doesn't sound like you have much confidence in your new tiler either..?

 

[Boggs]

As above.

If your not confident in what’s being carried out just pop some photos of progress on here and we can advise.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Your last 'tiler' has changed adhesive from white to grey..probably ran out half way though using all those dabs..
The hardi boards need a bed of tile adhesive under them before screwing down staggered and all joints taped and skimmed with adhesive.. Doesn't sound like you have much confidence in your new tiler either..?

I have lost confidence in the full job to be honest. This work was started in June and was told 2 weeks which ended up over 2 months. Grout started coming away and then tiles started popping and we’ve been on at him for around 8 weeks to get it resolved he sent original tiler out to regrout and was advised to live with a wee bit of movement if I could. Wasn’t happy with that answer and new grout done the exact same thing. We paid one guy which was the joiner who was project managing the full thing so because it is down to him to rectify these issues I’m worried about corners being cut to save costs. If I attatch pictures of the boards that have been put in place today would that help at all? Thanks so much again for your help.

 

[Boggs]

I have lost confidence in the full job to be honest. This work was started in June and was told 2 weeks which ended up over 2 months. Grout started coming away and then tiles started popping and we’ve been on at him for around 8 weeks to get it resolved he sent original tiler out to regrout and was advised to live with a wee bit of movement if I could. Wasn’t happy with that answer and new grout done the exact same thing. We paid one guy which was the joiner who was project managing the full thing so because it is down to him to rectify these issues I’m worried about corners being cut to save costs. If I attatch pictures of the boards that have been put in place today would that help at all? Thanks so much again for your help.

It would.

Is this a new tiler undertaking the repair.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

 

[Wonkyfloor]

It would.

Is this a new tiler undertaking the repair.

Hope the pictures help if they need to be different angle etc then please let me know. Yes new tiler has agreed to take on the job under the conditions that he wasn’t repairing loose tiles but lifting them all and replacing them and also putting these boards down as the base. As originally joiner asked him to pump silicone and try and secure the loose ones which he wasn’t willing to do.

 

[Spare Tool]

Well its not Hardi board for a start, think its no more ply, and all joints should be stuck with their tube adhesive..

 

[Boggs]

I don’t like the look of that.

Are they boarding over all the old adhesive and ply?

 

[Wonkyfloor]

Well its not Hardi board for a start, think its no more ply, and all joints should be stuck with their tube adhesive..

So I’ve been lied to again I’m guessing these boards are not going to be sufficient when I have movement in my actual floor? As this was the reason I was told I was to have hardiebacker boards so it would be a stable secure base to avoid the movement causing the same problems. Nobody is back until Monday so I can ask about the tube adhesive and watch what they do next and take pictures to post to see if what they’re telling me ties in with what you see in the photos?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It doesn’t look as though there is any adhesive/levelling material under any of those ‘pads’ thus creating voids.

 

[Wonkyfloor]

I don’t like the look of that.

Are they boarding over all the old adhesive and ply?

Yes they have boarded over what was on the floor as far as i was able to see. So the ply is definitely still buried under there aswell as the disconnected underfloor heating i imagine as they would have had to have dug that out otherwise and there’s no mess or rubbish to suggest that has happened.

 

[Boggs]

No more ply instructions.

https://sts-uk.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/4/

Overboarding timber floors.

If it’s not carried out like this its not right.

 

[Boggs]

I would insist that the first attempt is completely removed and started again from the floorboards.
There is nothing wrong with no more ply, so don’t worry about that part.
It must be installed as the instructions.

 

[Waluigi]

the last photo looks like he has overboarded the dots of adhesive.

It’s all getting a bit confusing as to how many layers you have. Whatever happens, you can’t just screw a bit of board onto dots of adhesive and hope for the best. Shortsighted thinking. There is no quick fix to this. No magic board. Just logic and manufacturers instructions.

 

[Spare Tool]

Wt absolute hell (public forum) is going on...nomoreply just screwed over old adhesive UFH and 6mm ply... Seriously time to get these idiots out of your house and employ someone that knows what they're doing..

 

[Wonkyfloor]

No more ply instructions.

https://sts-uk.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/4/

Overboarding timber floors.

If it’s not carried out like this

No more ply instructions.

https://sts-uk.com/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/4/

Overboarding timber floors.

If it’s not carried out like this its not right.

Thank you for the link and all the help I’ve honestly been at a loss as I have no knowledge of any sort of trade. Looks like more heated discussions are on the horizon. Your help and knowledge is much appreciated.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Just about sums up their care and attention!

 

[Waluigi]

Exactly what I was viewing that very second John. Couldn’t quite believe my eyes

It’s making me cross that people like this exist. I just want his name given so we can lynch him.

 

[Spare Tool]

View attachment 102868
Just about sums up their care and attention!

Perhaps they were hungry..

 

[Wonkyfloor]

I would insist that the first attempt is completely removed and started again from the floorboards.
There is nothing wrong with no more ply, so don’t worry about that part.
It must be installed as the instructions.

Thank you again for all your help and advice. Looks like more heated discussions will need to be had as it’s now clearly a money saving operation on their part. Your advice is much appreciated.