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S

Scott

He should have given you the certificates if the job was completed in the summer. You will need them to get the job signed off by building control assuming its a legit conversion and meets building regs. You are in a tricky situation regarding the final payment and him having the certificates as he will want his money before handing them over and you want it all put right and your certificates before you make the final payment.

Try and upload the pics, you will need to resize them to get them on

Edit: Where about are you Rachael?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

rachel

Thanks again for your replies. Attached are pics of the regrouting done about 10 days ago which we are not happy with. Difficult maybe to see as it's all white but there is silicone/grout where there shouldn't be.

One of the posters asked if it was a wet room. No it's a shower with sliding door on marine plywood, over three walls. Some mat tiles from Fired Earth, with a mosaic band about two third up the wall. Products used to fix/grout the tiles were Fired Earth.

First we had plumbing problems as soon as the shower head was in place - described in previous post. Then water carried on leaking down in the room below but apparently not from a plumbing problem.
It appeared water was going through the grout.
About 2 weeks after that, a total of 8 wall tiled cracked over the 3 walls (all below the mosaic) with 2 tiles cracked on the left wall, 5 on the wall facing the shower screen, 1 on the right hand wall (where the shower head is). The tiles were cracked in half, apart from one on the left wall which is cracked in a corner. On the wall facing the shower screen, there was a linear line emerging in the cracking. However, on the other walls, there was no particular pattern. In addition, the grout was cracking in many places in the shower, both horizontally and vertically. It looked like the grout has coming away from the tiles.
The builder didn't want to remove cracked tiles or investigate further claiming we needed a guarantee from the tile company that it wasn't the tiles or their grout. The tile company agreed to send someone who concluded to bad workmanship/substrate movement.
We put that to the builder who said his tiler would remove cracked tiles and an area of tiles on the wall where it appeared the grout was soaking the water and have a look. He also said he would remove the grout and regrout. Tiles were removed and replaced but not the grout. The builder didn't mention it to us when he left for the day. We noticed it and phoned him that evening. He then explained the 'old' grout was like cement. We insisted that he had agreed to remove any areas of cracked grout - the following day a small proportion of 'old' grout were removed but new grout was applied (or should I say smeared) on top of the old.
The leaking has apparently stopped or maybe another layer of silicone was applied somewhere we don't know. But it seems to us that water is still probably getting behind the tiles (there are still cracked grout in area + there is a tiny hole in the new grout) though we can't prove it as there is no leak.


Your views on
- quality of workmanship on regrout-- we think it's bad but don't want to be unfair.
- what to do next - having agreed that he would only replace the tiles/regrout, and not the substrate, can we now turn round and say it's not satisfactory ...
- do we need to give him another chance to correct the regrout?

Thanks in advance and apologies for the waffling
 

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R

rachel

Yes it's all legit we have building control certificate now but were supposed to get 2 separate certificates for gas/electricity.
The question is also can we trust him to not come back and do a worse job than the first time round. He is very annoyed with us for questioning the way he does things.
He should have given you the certificates if the job was completed in the summer. You will need them to get the job signed off by building control assuming its a legit conversion and meets building regs. You are in a tricky situation regarding the final payment and him having the certificates as he will want his money before handing them over and you want it all put right and your certificates before you make the final payment.

Try and upload the pics, you will need to resize them to get them on

Edit: Where about are you Rachael?
 
S

Scott

The builder didn't want to remove cracked tiles or investigate further claiming we needed a guarantee from the tile company that it wasn't the tiles or their grout. The tile company agreed to send someone who concluded to bad workmanship/substrate movement.

Would he have had the same stance had it been a brick wall that had cracked? Im sure he wouldnt have asked the brick manufacturers about their bricks? Of course not as any builder knows they will only crack like that due to movement. This case is the same
 
R

rachel

Thanks a lot.. All comments v. appreciated. Have been treated a bit as if we were making it all up/exaggerating by the builder so we want to come prepared when we next approach him.

I would also welcome suggestions on what to do next - having agreed that he would only replace the tiles/regrout (ie a half baked job from what you've all said) and not the substrate, can we now turn round and say it's not satisfactory ...
- do we need to give him another chance to correct the regrout ie probably retile as well as I can't imagine he'll be able to regrout? We really unsure where we stand there. Trust has been lost there and we dread to think what will happens next ...
 
D

diamondtiling

I have had a quick read through, has he applied tanking behind these tiles? His grout is shoddy and looks as though it was mixed very wet when applied. Whilst you have issues with the substrate you are never going to fix this problem. He is not a tiler and nor were the chaps he used to fix the tiles, he really needs to hold his hand up and admit his mistakes.
His first serious error was thinking that tiling is easy, next time maybe he will use a pro.
Where are you Rachel? maybe a member on here is close by and can have a look for you?
 
D

Deleted member 9966

Rachel

I think you now need a report from a qualified and trusted source to confirm that the job done isn't satisfactory. You can commission the TTA to do one at around £700 however other people in this situation have hired a trusted tiler to come in and do the report for less of a fee. I'm sure if you tell us where in the country you are, we would have enough professional members on this forum to find one near to you who can at least come out and inspect the work you've had done.

And personally, if you think it's now going to be a battle with the builder, you need to consider spending the money on appointing a solicitor to fight this battle on your behalf. This could get extremely messy as the builder is witholding safety certs etc.

We hope you're able to get this sorted quickly but we've seen more and more jobs like this recently.

Liz
 
R

rachel

SW London. We had a couple of people in while we were waiting for the FE installer to come round, ie before the regrout. One said the same as the FE installer. The other was offering a more piecemeal approach ie have a look behind see any signs of damage then retile/regrout.
The builder used a tiler to put the tiles in place -- adhesive stage -- but all the initial prep stages and subsequent regrouting were done by builders. We doubt he's really going to put his hands up. When it carried on leaking after the initial plumbing leaks were found we had to put up with all sorts of veiled accusations, such as our showering style, the fact that we were spraying water straight on the screen. This led to all the siliconing around the showering screen. In hindsight we should have put our foot down then.
 
R

rachel

We have sth from the Fired Earth installer in writing that states the work is bad workmanship. Would that be enough, now that the work has been regrouted? Having had him back after that to do the regrouting though would that invalidate it? That's our worries now...
Rachel

I think you now need a report from a qualified and trusted source to confirm that the job done isn't satisfactory. You can commission the TTA to do one at around £700 however other people in this situation have hired a trusted tiler to come in and do the report for less of a fee. I'm sure if you tell us where in the country you are, we would have enough professional members on this forum to find one near to you who can at least come out and inspect the work you've had done.

And personally, if you think it's now going to be a battle with the builder, you need to consider spending the money on appointing a solicitor to fight this battle on your behalf. This could get extremely messy as the builder is witholding safety certs etc.

We hope you're able to get this sorted quickly but we've seen more and more jobs like this recently.

Liz
 

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