assess training wales

[MrE]

Re: assess traing wales

No Dan, I more or less helped start the company up along with 4 other Assessors, 3 of whom worked for a training company in Caerphilly. Everyone was expecting to build something brilliant that resemebled the level of training in the 80's with the old C&G. I took the job just after my MSc. We got the place up to shape, but it never developed from there, I took it as far as I could go, but when I realised nothing was going to improve, both myself, the sec, the plumber, carpenter and the P&D all quit. The plasterer stayed, becasue he was too old to get something else, but now he works for a different training company. I'd not work for them again, I have been asked by one or two other training companys to teach again, but to be honest I'm really enjoying my new job and been at it 4 yrs now and loving it Perhaps things have changed a bit at Access, the plasterer who stayed said it was worse than ever, but he's gone now - I know that by the end I was glad to be from there, the only good thing is that many of the kids I trained in brickwork, turned out pretty good. I gave a few of them work on site paying £500 a week, which totally changed their lives.

 

[Dan]

Re: assess traing wales

What other training courses are in Wales then mate? What did the one in Caerphilly do?

And would you teach again do you think if you didn't love your job as much as you do?

 

[MrE]

Re: assess traing wales

Teach again, defo. It’s a great buzz and knowing how poor the industry is then I think its important that top tradesmen pass the skills on, after all that was what people done for us when we started. I’m hoping to retire at around 45, 38 at the mo. But I know I’ll want to do something part time, and teaching probably would be it. Be it in Uni, College or a Centre. I’ve been told on many occasions by a whole range of people that I’m very good at teaching, bottom line is if my lads can do it onsite to a high standard then I’ve done my job, after all its only all about giving people all the info and helping them stay focused while they practice non stop – motivation is everything.

As for training in Wales, I’ll be honest from what I have seen of the training centres I’m not impressed at all, but that is only my limited experience of them, even though I only did a few years, my mates had been teaching for most of their lives 35yrs is some cases, so I tend to listen to those guys too and how they believed times were changing. Cearphilly was not that different from Access to be honest. Better, but still with a poor attitude and again mainly took troubled kids 14 and up who are on the verge of being kicked out of school, or have been or are on tag etc. Which again is fine, I personally like working with those, but you cant mix adults with them etc.

As for Training in South Wales, the best place to train is Ystrad Mynach College by far! Then Merthyr College, Pontypridd College is not so good but better than most training Centres, Carillion are ok too. I’m not too sure about Barry College, not been there but was offered a job teaching brickwork there. But I’m not sure about tiling, will ask some of our hot tillers. Also the trouble with training is people simply don’t realise it takes 2-3 years to become excellent and even then your always learning, not 2-3 weeks and your done. But that said you can streamline training and get them up to speed with the basics and give enough knowledge for people to learn onsite as they go – not my favoured method mind you, but a method nonetheless.

The fact of the matter is that certain trades lend themselves to speed learning ie Plastering, Tiling, Plumbing and Electrics, they are all easy. Now I use that word carefully, what I mean is you can learn in a short time to get an acceptable even excellent finish to ‘basic general work’ but its not the trade, in fact its bloody far from it, but you can survive. Home electrics and Plumbing are painfully easy, Tiling a bathroom at home can be a touch more tricky but still based on the materials normally chosen for a home again it’s easy. Plastering again when you can get the finish its easy. But those of us in the trade can list countless examples of where its not easy, in fact the job at hand will require exceptional skill level gained from years of training and experience.

Now take anyone of those trades and take them into the commercial arena, and then you will see why we have Advance Craft levels in those subjects, it really is a case of chaulk and cheese. The home can be challenging for a person with little training, but commercial large scale operations will ‘almost’ be impossible for that same person, not to mention dangerous.

The trouble is, everyone is only training for the home / jobbing builder. Even the CITB to my eyes have gone to the dogs. The one good thing about recession is that training tends to improve, so hopefully we will see a return to high level long coursed skill based training that is tied to a wealth of theory, instead of these MaC-Courses. Now if that should happen I’d love to be involved in teaching then Because I don’t know about you, but I love nothing more than seeing a full on tradesman nail a unique or difficult job and you stand back at it and go ‘ Yea’ it’s why I started at 15 and keeps me going today. What about you Bud, what’s your take on the training today?

 

[Dan]

Re: assess traing wales

Spot on for your lengthy post mate. Thank you.

It's clearly something close to your heart.

Do you think, as an older adult, needing to get into a trade, having some handy skills maybe diy or whatever, a short course can give 'you' the step you need to get into a trade though?

Even after college they've not shown you how to run your new skills as a business I feel. Plus, the materials available at colleges, and the time it takes to cover a course, can be silly really. Not practical at all for the average situation with the current rate of career path changes.

 

[MrE]

Re: assess traing wales

Your right, defo a short course and DIY can get you into a trade and I think they certainly got their place. I mean lets take tiling, it would be better for say general construction for you to have good tiling skills, basic carpentary, basic plastering, basic plumbing and part p electric then you can take the whole package when pricing jobs and dont have to sub out the work jsut wire up a shower or dismantle and re-plumb a suite, or board / repair walls.

Plus yep college is not up to pace with fast track learning that is suitable for bright adults. Plus its harder to get work placements now too, which are essential to college work. At Ystrad we did have lessons on tax and setting up a business but that was only becasue the lecturers took it on themselves to teach us that. It should be part of the course I think, and its not difficult, but again after someone has taken you through it

But lets say I wanted to be a spark or plumber / pipe fitter and earn a regular wage from onsite - then I'd be looking at 2yrs and would want an NVQ2 ie basic craft - within that I'd want 1yrs onsite experience. Thats the level of course I'd be looking at and not say a 10 week crash course. But all courses have their place, and I defo agree with College being too slow a process for adults - fine for when your 16 - 19 but not so good for say 40 - 43! After 21 we all just want to get on with things and I reckon you could get to NVQ3 in two years and NVQ2 in 1, which for NVQ 1 would only be say 13 weeks training, 13 onsite, 10 weeks training. So not a lot different to what people are already doing ie short course, have a go, short course. But I get what your saying, and I defo agree

 

[Dan]

Re: assess traing wales

I think there is room for them all in this current market, and we need them all to differenciate between all the types of jobs available and skill-types needed.

I bet if you had a tiler, sparky, whatever that did a short course and then 1 years experience he'd get on your site as easy as a guy that's done 3 years in college and 1 years experience. And that's really what I think the guys are trying to acheive, a bit of a jump to get the experience which is what they really know is the valuable thing in the real world.

Bloody good chat though mate. Thanks for that and stick around.

 

[MrE]

Re: assess traing wales

No worries Pah back to work tomorrow, called back early, week off well almost. Same here good chat, and great site bud, some brilliant info here, and when we are stuck for tilers, usually when over the bridge working, I can log on here from my lappy and hopefully snag someone localish to do the job and pull us out of the doo doo Awesome site! :8:

 

[White Room]

Re: assess traing wales

Some great writing MrE

 

[air kid]

Re: assess traing wales

I done a plumbing course at access training in Cardiff a couple of years ago and can honestly say it was the worst mistake i've made.They made out you would be qualified and they would help you with getting work at the end of the course.After complaining about this at the end they just dismisssed me and made up excuses like it was made clear to me what I'd gain at the end.I would stay way clear of them as they are just out to rip people off.
I wish I'd done my homework on them before going ahead with the course as its cost me a lot of money and I realise now what knowledge I gained there I could off gained from a DIY book for nothing.The course I done cost £4200 and I know other people who done this course feel the same about them.I really don't know how centres like these get away with ripping people of like this.