Ceramic floor tiles and plywood problem

[Qwerty]

Something like this could assist....

http://www.its.co.uk/pd/GRABSE1SET-Trend-Damaged-ScrewBolt-Remover-Set-_TREGRABSE1SET.htm

 

[Mr Tiler]

Don't worry about the screwholes mate just be sure to glue and a screw the hard I backer boards down (glue being adhesive). Try pulling it up more point wasting time finding each screw will take ages 6mm ply will come rite up

 

[White Room]

Personally I'd use a crow bar lifting the ply but keep pressure on the joist areas because the chipboard may break or get damaged, the screws can be pulled using a claw hammer.

 

[widler]

If the tiles have been solid for 15 years, why risk damaging the subfloor ?
Clean the ply,glue and screw hardi with screws which go into the original floor and tile.
If heights not a issue why bother with the extra work ?

 

[Martyn Leeds]

I had ceramic floor tiles fitted 4 years ago by a bathroom installer

House built '99

my quess is that it's failed

 

[Andy Allen]

by the time you have messed about taking the tiles off the 6mm ply then carefully trying to clean it all up, you might as well just rip the lot up and start again........no brainer really...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[CJ]

You even TRY to remove tiles AND old cement from a 6mm ply board, it'll wreck it anyway. Quicker....and more to the point, Better to lift the lot and do it right. More work "thought", shouldn't even come into to it.

 

[widler]

Sorry read it wrong, don't know where I got 15 y from,but he never said it has failed,but it could have.

And No CJ I've never lifted addy off ply before ,is it hard,jeez pls show me how !
And yes,if its buggered lift it up,but if the ply is stuck like baby **** to a blanket ,leave it,board over and tile.
Someone please explain why,if it's solid why he can't hardi it and tile ?

 

[CJ]

The ply would probably just been screwed down to the chipboard........rather than glued and screwed like hardi. By the time you faff about trying to get the ply clean enough to overboard, that's assuming it hasn't been shredded, you could have ripped it all up and overboarded with hardi, glued and screwed.

I really can't see the point in messing about trying to clean up an unsuitable base.

 

[Speedoman]

Hi

Let me just give a brief history.

House built in 1999.

Bathroom installer fitted new bathroom and ensuite in 2010 and did not do it properly.

One of the problems was the showers, which I have stripped and rebuilt.

The original shower trays had been fitted with plastic legs so when I removed the showers I built a wooden base for the showers, picture 001 and 002 show some of the construction pictures.

The marine plywood that you see in the pictures is 20mm thick. The marine plywood was glued and screwed to the original chipboard flooring.

You can also see the floor tiles in the pictures next to the marine plywood.

Picture 003 shows the floor tiles that need to be removed.

I want to avoid replacing the original chipboard flooring, as it will weaken the chipboard flooring that the marine plywood is on for the shower tray base. I am also not sure if it will weaken the chipboard flooring going into the bedrooms and hallway.

In terms of the floor being solid when I step on the tiles, the only slight creak I get is on a couple of tiles, which are next to a few tiles that I replaced because those were chipped. When I removed those tiles I used a chisel and hammer and then a multi tool with a carbide rasp to sand the tile adhesive. It was then that the other couple of tiles slightly creaked.

I was going to use a SDS drill and chisel bit to remove the rest of the tiles unless someone had an alternative?

There are too many problems with the main bathroom and ensuite that have been bothering me for four years. I have been giving serious through since October to carefully remove the toilets, sinks, bath and radiators to use again and then to strip and rebuild, but not removing the shower walls, as I fitted cement boards when the wooden base was built.

I would use moisture resistant plasterboards for the rest of the walls, cement boards are great for the shower area!

All the tiles are ceramic in the main bathroom. In the ensuite the tiles are porcelain at the moment including the floor, but I would like to replace them with ceramic as they are easier to work with. The ensuite floor tiles I would also be looking to remove but not until the main bathroom is done.

But before I can go ahead with everything else, I need to find a solution to how to retile the floor.

Just to mention height of the floor is no concern and I do not mind having a step.

I can use crow bars and lift the plywood up, but I’m sure it will leave the chipboard flooring in a mess.

I know I mentioned I could fix and glue plywood or cement board onto the existing 6mm plywood and some people said no, but can I ask just for my own knowledge, what is wrong with that?

Anyway hope the above information helps.

 

[CJ]

How was the original ply fitted? Was it just screwed down?

The way I see it.......it would be quicker to just lift the lot up, and then using a flexible adhesive, (which would fill any nicks left by screw removal) lay 6mm hardi backer, screwed as well. Or you could spend hours scraping of hardened adhesive, and you don't really want to use a SDS drill to vibrate all and sundry.

If my job........that's how I would do approach this.

 

[CJ]

:yikes: Duplicate post.

 

[widler]

Thanks for getting back and for also letting me know about the 6mm hardie backer.

I will consider the option of removing the existing plywood.

The reason I asked if the 6mm plywood could be left, without removing was because it would take alot of extra work and time to get the adhesive out of the screw heads holding the plywood down.

I also did not want to remove the plywood more aggressively and then damage the chipboard flooring.

I was also abit concerned that if I remove all the screws holding down the plywood, then there would be alot of holes in the chipboard flooring from the screws.

In your opinion, if I was to lay the new 15mm plywood or 6mm hardie backer on the existing 6mm plywood glued and screwed, would that be OK?

Just for reference, the house was built in 1999.

Many thanks

This is what he said,he was worried about taking the addy out of the screw heads,taking all the screws out,damaging the chipboard ect ect.
I said if it's solid why take it up,I wouldn't ,if height ain't a issue,why risk damaging the main substrate,but ****,I ain't with the few on here,I'm going against the grain man,I'm a rebel.
Thread starter,don't listen to me,I even cut my own plinths down,I'm a outcast,a rebel man

 

[AliGage]

So we're saying this floor hasn't failed? We are talking about removing tiles etc im guessing not.

Im sort of inclined to agree with Widler. Sounding like im the only one. But IF the floor is deflection free after removing tiles and in reasonable order then id clean up and prime the 6mm ply putting in more 25mm screws to ensure its well fixed to the chipboard. Then i would glue and screw hardie backer over the top. Then tile.

6mm ply is pish for an overlay. But fixing hbb over ply is more preferable than chipboard anyway.

 

[Speedoman]

Thank you all for getting back and helping me!

I am almost certain the 6mm plywood was screwed and not glued.

When I was using a hammer and chisel to remove a few tiles as mentioned in the post above, there was alot of vibration and a paint crack occured between the plasterboard ceiling and coving in the living room, so I agree if using an SDS chisel then the vibration and possible damage will be alot worse.

When I did use a chisel and hammer it did rip the plywood up abit. That maybe because I was holding the chisel at the wrong angle, cannot say for sure.

But thinking about it now, my feeling is that the 6mm plywood would again be ripped up alittle. Also the vibration caused by the chiselling is putting me off.

So if I used a crow bar to lift up the plywood and tiles, that would reduce any vibration.

The original screw holes in the chipboard flooring I am guessing would of got alot bigger now from the removal of the plywood.

If I then used a flexible adhesive as suggested, I could use BAL single part fastflex with a filler knife or trowel to fill the holes.

This would then make the floor ready for the cement board or plywood.

I am happy to do that, just hoping the chipboard flooring is not going to be damaged beyond use.

Is BAL single part fastflex OK to use to fill the holes in the chipboard flooring?

The new screws will make a new thread in the tile adhesive, will that be OK and strong?

How does this all sound?

Also as you can see in one of the posts above, I have fitted hardie backer boards to walls but I have not read fitting instructions for the hardie backer floor boards.

I know the floor boards are thinner then the wall boards which helps when cutting.

But I wanted to ask what type of countersink bits do you use. I was wearing out my countersink bits so quickly on the hardie backer boards it became a real struggle to countersink each hole.

Thanks again for all the great help!!