Cracking in Tile Grout
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S
Stef
You are doing everything by the book & that should be enough to cover you for a guarantee but they will find anyway out of it as you have found out.
I don't phone technical now as some of the things they recommend I don't agree with.
This forum is the best place to come for advice but it's normally when someone has a problem like your own case.
It's all well & good us surmising what has led to failure but unless you physically look at the job then it's a guessing game.
I hope you get to the bottom of it.
J
J Sid
Like Stef says, they wouldn't admit to anything that would mean there product has failed.
I had this with another adhesive manufacturer who's adhesive failed on some jobs the company I was working for had done. The adhesive company claimed all the normal things, mixed with to much water, not enough water, all the standard excuses.
End of the day, some samples were sent to be tested at an independent chemist. Result, the product was not suitable for what they claimed. The product was withdrawn from sale.
If you believe that any product that was used on your project has not performed as you understood it would or should, sadly it will be down to you to prove that a product has not performed as claimed.
You will get possible reasons for your failure from knowledgeable people on here and hopefully it will point you in the right direction to sort your problems.
Has the floor temperature been taken around the cracked tile for hot or cold spots, which could put undue stress on an already stressed cut tile?
Did the angle of the internal cut have a radius, to reduce the point Load? or is it a sharp point on the internal angle?
Has the max actual floor temperature be measured in the areas of the cracked grout? I know the Weber grout mixed with to much water is very weak, and can be easily done and should be an easy test. If so a re grout of the floor is not a major job.
I had this with another adhesive manufacturer who's adhesive failed on some jobs the company I was working for had done. The adhesive company claimed all the normal things, mixed with to much water, not enough water, all the standard excuses.
End of the day, some samples were sent to be tested at an independent chemist. Result, the product was not suitable for what they claimed. The product was withdrawn from sale.
If you believe that any product that was used on your project has not performed as you understood it would or should, sadly it will be down to you to prove that a product has not performed as claimed.
You will get possible reasons for your failure from knowledgeable people on here and hopefully it will point you in the right direction to sort your problems.
Has the floor temperature been taken around the cracked tile for hot or cold spots, which could put undue stress on an already stressed cut tile?
Did the angle of the internal cut have a radius, to reduce the point Load? or is it a sharp point on the internal angle?
Has the max actual floor temperature be measured in the areas of the cracked grout? I know the Weber grout mixed with to much water is very weak, and can be easily done and should be an easy test. If so a re grout of the floor is not a major job.
J
jesteh
Thanks very much for all the responses.
I am actually not that bothered about the cracked tile - while a bit annoying its also straightforward to fix. Its only one tile thats been cut and is in a funny place. If it cracks again, it can also be replaced by two smaller pieces - its really not that visible either way. When tiler is back to look at it, we'll lift the tile and see whats happening underneath which will hopefully provide a few ideas.
Its the grout that I am more concerned about. The cracks are very small, really more a hairline fractures and they appear lengthwise either on the edge of the tiles or down the middle of the grout line (rather than across the grout). Grout is also not cracked in every single grout line but it is cracked throughout the whole tiled area. Its not limited to big sections where there is lots of movement. Even in the small separate utility room which is 3m x 1m there are cracks appearing. Cracks are also small enough that you have to get down and look closely to notice them - just walking around the room they are not visible. I only noticed when I started looking for problems after noticing cracked tile. I'll get some pictures done later today.
Is this a major issue?
Is it normal for flexible grout to develop these hairline fractures with UFH?
Should the decoupling mat have prevented this bearing in mind that its advertised as being able to take horizontal movement in milimeters.
Should I leave it for now (grout seems solid and stable enough otherwise) or do I have to regrout?
Does the grout cracking indicate potentially that tiles may start moving too?
As far as quality of grout job - I didn't do it myself so I can't say whether it was done right but the guys who did it were experienced. I actually watched them mixing the grout, they did it by feel - i.e. mixed grout in small amount of water then kept splashing in bit more water while mixing with a paddle mixer at slow speed until it felt right. I wouldn't trust myself to do it that way but its down to experience - they've been doing this for 30 years so I wasn't about to make them measure it out on kitchen scales 🙂.
I am actually not that bothered about the cracked tile - while a bit annoying its also straightforward to fix. Its only one tile thats been cut and is in a funny place. If it cracks again, it can also be replaced by two smaller pieces - its really not that visible either way. When tiler is back to look at it, we'll lift the tile and see whats happening underneath which will hopefully provide a few ideas.
Its the grout that I am more concerned about. The cracks are very small, really more a hairline fractures and they appear lengthwise either on the edge of the tiles or down the middle of the grout line (rather than across the grout). Grout is also not cracked in every single grout line but it is cracked throughout the whole tiled area. Its not limited to big sections where there is lots of movement. Even in the small separate utility room which is 3m x 1m there are cracks appearing. Cracks are also small enough that you have to get down and look closely to notice them - just walking around the room they are not visible. I only noticed when I started looking for problems after noticing cracked tile. I'll get some pictures done later today.
Is this a major issue?
Is it normal for flexible grout to develop these hairline fractures with UFH?
Should the decoupling mat have prevented this bearing in mind that its advertised as being able to take horizontal movement in milimeters.
Should I leave it for now (grout seems solid and stable enough otherwise) or do I have to regrout?
Does the grout cracking indicate potentially that tiles may start moving too?
As far as quality of grout job - I didn't do it myself so I can't say whether it was done right but the guys who did it were experienced. I actually watched them mixing the grout, they did it by feel - i.e. mixed grout in small amount of water then kept splashing in bit more water while mixing with a paddle mixer at slow speed until it felt right. I wouldn't trust myself to do it that way but its down to experience - they've been doing this for 30 years so I wasn't about to make them measure it out on kitchen scales 🙂.
J
jesteh
Thanks very much for all the responses.
I am actually not that bothered about the cracked tile - while a bit annoying its also straightforward to fix. Its only one tile thats been cut and is in a funny place. If it cracks again, it can also be replaced by two smaller pieces - its really not that visible either way. When tiler is back to look at it, we'll lift the tile and see whats happening underneath which will hopefully provide a few ideas.
Its the grout that I am more concerned about. The cracks are very small, really more a hairline fractures and they appear lengthwise either on the edge of the tiles or down the middle of the grout line (rather than across the grout). Grout is also not cracked in every single grout line but it is cracked throughout the whole tiled area. Its not limited to big sections where there is lots of movement. Even in the small separate utility room which is 3m x 1m there are cracks appearing. Cracks are also small enough that you have to get down and look closely to notice them - just walking around the room they are not visible. I only noticed when I started looking for problems after noticing cracked tile. I'll get some pictures done later today.
Is this a major issue?
Is it normal for flexible grout to develop these hairline fractures with UFH?
Should the decoupling mat have prevented this bearing in mind that its advertised as being able to take horizontal movement in milimeters.
Should I leave it for now (grout seems solid and stable enough otherwise) or do I have to regrout?
Does the grout cracking indicate potentially that tiles may start moving too?
As far as quality of grout job - I didn't do it myself so I can't say whether it was done right but the guys who did it were experienced. I actually watched them mixing the grout, they did it by feel - i.e. mixed grout in small amount of water then kept splashing in bit more water while mixing with a paddle mixer at slow speed until it felt right. I wouldn't trust myself to do it that way but its down to experience - they've been doing this for 30 years so I wasn't about to make them measure it out on kitchen scales 🙂.
I am actually not that bothered about the cracked tile - while a bit annoying its also straightforward to fix. Its only one tile thats been cut and is in a funny place. If it cracks again, it can also be replaced by two smaller pieces - its really not that visible either way. When tiler is back to look at it, we'll lift the tile and see whats happening underneath which will hopefully provide a few ideas.
Its the grout that I am more concerned about. The cracks are very small, really more a hairline fractures and they appear lengthwise either on the edge of the tiles or down the middle of the grout line (rather than across the grout). Grout is also not cracked in every single grout line but it is cracked throughout the whole tiled area. Its not limited to big sections where there is lots of movement. Even in the small separate utility room which is 3m x 1m there are cracks appearing. Cracks are also small enough that you have to get down and look closely to notice them - just walking around the room they are not visible. I only noticed when I started looking for problems after noticing cracked tile. I'll get some pictures done later today.
Is this a major issue?
Is it normal for flexible grout to develop these hairline fractures with UFH?
Should the decoupling mat have prevented this bearing in mind that its advertised as being able to take horizontal movement in milimeters.
Should I leave it for now (grout seems solid and stable enough otherwise) or do I have to regrout?
Does the grout cracking indicate potentially that tiles may start moving too?
As far as quality of grout job - I didn't do it myself so I can't say whether it was done right but the guys who did it were experienced. I actually watched them mixing the grout, they did it by feel - i.e. mixed grout in small amount of water then kept splashing in bit more water while mixing with a paddle mixer at slow speed until it felt right. I wouldn't trust myself to do it that way but its down to experience - they've been doing this for 30 years so I wasn't about to make them measure it out on kitchen scales 🙂.
Morning..
If as you say the tiles are stuck solid and there is no tenting of the field tiles or any signs of debonding , then I would be looking at the water to powder ratio of the mixed grout.
If this was over watered , then this can produce a weaker product , thus can be the cause of the light cracking due to shrinkage of excess water evaporation , so,worth looking at that option as well.
The cracked tile , this could simply be a stress crack to an L cut , this can happen IMO and a replace as you say is simple enough.
Just another option to consider on the info you've provided.
Dave.
If as you say the tiles are stuck solid and there is no tenting of the field tiles or any signs of debonding , then I would be looking at the water to powder ratio of the mixed grout.
If this was over watered , then this can produce a weaker product , thus can be the cause of the light cracking due to shrinkage of excess water evaporation , so,worth looking at that option as well.
The cracked tile , this could simply be a stress crack to an L cut , this can happen IMO and a replace as you say is simple enough.
Just another option to consider on the info you've provided.
Dave.
R
Rich Midge
I think Dave is spot on. Even if the grout was mixed correctly and to the letter the cracking you describe could be down to excess water when washing down. Really could be as simple as not squeezing enough water out of the sponges, be it washboys or by hand.
J
J Sid
Weber Grout mixed to wet or washed to soon or to much water...... Post #8.
Seen it may times on ufh, but what do I know...
Turn ufh off, remove grout and regrout.
Adhesive and grout should be mixed as manufacturers instructions, otherwise they will not perform at designed and your warranty will be void.
Heard it may times, 'been doing it 30 years, I know how to mix it' hopefully they mixed the adhesive correctly!
You now know it has not been mixed as instructed, ask them to redo it at there cost.
On the information you have supplied, weak grout look like the problem.
Seen it may times on ufh, but what do I know...
Turn ufh off, remove grout and regrout.
Adhesive and grout should be mixed as manufacturers instructions, otherwise they will not perform at designed and your warranty will be void.
Heard it may times, 'been doing it 30 years, I know how to mix it' hopefully they mixed the adhesive correctly!
You now know it has not been mixed as instructed, ask them to redo it at there cost.
On the information you have supplied, weak grout look like the problem.
