yea Phil thats him and no he died many years ago now he had two sons billy and michael ,michael died on a night out in bolton one night i think he was only about twenty two ,when bill y senior died young bill carried on with the buisness but i dont know whether they are still going or not ,like i say bill was a nasty man ,iworked for him on and off for a good few years,a slave driver he was and did me out of a lot of money i started with him when i left school at fifteen he told every body i was the best apprentice he had ever had ,but never told me that ,taught me a lot though i must give him that ,be he would work eight days a week until all hours and expected everybody to do the same i walked a few times but he used to come round to my house,sometimes with the binbags on and talk me into going back, and like an idiot i thought he would change ,but no just the same i cant raaly say i was sorry when he passed away he treated people that bad ,even his brother and his own mother,but thats a long time ago now