Help please

[lisamahey]

Hi, I'm looking for advice and help so joined this forum.
I am in a really bad situation with a high street tile store and their recommended tiler.
A long story, but we purchased tiles and used their recommended fitters. A gyvlon screed was laid and dried as should be before tiling started. Tiles were laid after a quick brush of the floor and some PVA wiped over. You've probably guessed what's coming, all of my tiles are now loose and grout is falling out.
We informed store the screed was designed for underfloor heating before work commenced. After several months and many visits to my house, the store inform me they are not liable as we didn't inform them which screed we had used??
I have paid out £6k on this floor and have been treated terribly. The work hadn't even finished when we saw crack lines appear in the grout and the tiler walker off the job leaving it half finished.
Should the tiler have prepped the floor differently, regardless of what screed was used?
Any advise or help that can be offered would be great. Please ask any questions if further info needed.
Sorry for the rant.....very upset

Thanks
lisa

 

[Deleted member 9966]

hi Lisa

sorry to hear about your bad experience. could you just clarify - have you got underfloor heating fitted to the floor? or did you just choose the screed to accommodate UFH but decided against having UFH installed?

Thanks

p.s. you've come to the right place to ask your questions.

 

[lisamahey]

Wow, quick response!
Yes we installed underfloor heating

 

[Deleted member 9966]

is it an electric or water type?

 

[Stewart]

I'm not an expert on Gyvlon screeds but there are plenty peeps on here that are. Regardless of the screed it's the fitters responsibility to do the correct prep (which they obviously haven't) They are the professionals, not you and it's up to them to gain all the information needed to make the right decisions! If this has been ongoing for some time, I would speak to a solicitor and get things moving in the right direction.

 

[akinsontiles]

Gyvlon screeds are fully poured in one hit and through the drying process the top layer forms a latence which should be removed prior to tiling.

You say the tiler applied PVA but this may have been a primer specifically designed to cope with Gyvlon screeds by a reputable manufacturer in which case the problem could be related to any UFH installed and insufficient movement joints allowed for expansion.

If you happen to have the bags of adhesive the tiler was using left on site telephone their technical department and ask for their advice on how the sub floor should have been prepared using their system as different manufacturer's deal with this in deifferent ways.

Blame tends to lie at the feet of the person doing the work rather than the supplier of the goods in my experience as they are proceeding at their own risk rather than simply retailing a product and not knowing if the product gets used following the correct procedures but trading standards and a lawyer would be better help with this solution.

With regard to resolving the problem the floor will need to be lifted and relaid by someone and I can only see that happening through a court decision if their is no chance of an amicable settlement with both supplier and fitter.

If it does go to court then you will likely need a professional independant report which is available (at a price) from The Tile Association who will send a surveyor (member of RICS) to the property and compare it with British Standards and report on their findings. With this you may well be able to win a court case and claim on fitter's or suppliers insurance to get the floor laid correctly.

I am very sorry to hear about this pickle you are in and that someone would walk away from the problem. This is one of my pet hates about business in general is that a lot of people turn their back when they hit a problem rather than approach it professionally and resolve it amicably.

Keep us up to date with how this pans out for you and let us know where in the country you are so someone on the forum may be able to assist.

 

[lisamahey]

The under floor heating is water.
I have spoken to a solicitor who has been great but says it will cost us in the region of £10-£15k to take them to court ??

 

[akinsontiles]

Here is a link to Lafarge's info page regarding Gyvlon screeds Data Sheets It may help you with your case to understand for yourself the products you are dealing with.

Here is a link to BAL Adhesive and their technical department who will supply you with advice on how their adhesive system deals with a Gyvlon screed BAL Adhesives - Technical Support

This is Mapei's contact's page also for a second opinion MAPEI adhesives sealants chemical products for construction

 

[lisamahey]

Thanks. It was Topflex rapidset that was used as an adhesive which now appears was not suitable for the screed?
The problem and question is....we had a screed laid ans appointed some one to lay tiles. The tiler and supplier say as we used a specialist screed and didn't inform them we are liable. We are everyday people who don't know about tiling or under floor heating, so how are we to know this? Surely it is the tilers responsibility to find out what he is working with and we would have had no idea there were different adhesives.

 

[akinsontiles]

This is a very "legal" problem that would need dealing with by your solicitor. Problem there lies with even if you win your case are you likely to see any money from it to pay for the repairs?

I've been called in to help in other situations similar with cracked floors and poor installations. Reality is that you need to understand the circumstances of your fixer to decide whether it is worth pursuing. If they have insurance then they may be willing to settle and let you claim on that. If not then you may be able to get them through the small claims court. Again I'm not a solicitor.

The tiles may be retrievable but you do not specify what type they are so I can't be sure. Unfortunately I don't know of a miracle cure here that would resolve the situation and fix the tiles properly without them all coming up first. Just out of curiosity have you paid for the installation?

 

[Deleted member 9966]

Lisa

have you had an independent report done yet to assess the different layers to your flooring and to find out what caused the problem in the first place?

 

[lisamahey]

Yes i've paid out a total of £7k on this floor!
The problem with the insurance is that the tilers insurance are saying the store/supplier should cover on their insurance as he was employed through their recommended tiler programme and the store are saying it's not their insurance as the tiler is not employer by them and is self employed. Everyone just want to push the liablilty onto some one else.
It was porcelain tiles that went down and there won't be a cure other than to take them all up and relay as it's not the odd one which has come loose but the whole floor. The creaking and grating noise when they are walked on is now really bad. This of course has loosened all the grout which is coming away in lumps and looks terrible.
Trading standards have suggested small claims courts to keep costs down, but the maximum I can go for is £6k which will still leave me out of pocket :-(

 

[lisamahey]

I've got an expert witness coming to see me tomorrow. Do they usually help things along do you know?

 

[Deleted member 9966]

I've got an expert witness coming to see me tomorrow. Do they usually help things along do you know?

it depends who your expert witness is.

 

[jay]

hi and welcome to the forum
need a bit more info about the screed and heating
sounds like the tiler is at fault as he has laid tiles (there for accepts the substrate as suitable to be tiled)
any chance of some pics