Help please

[lisamahey]

Having problems uploading pictures???

 

[Deleted member 9966]

Having problems uploading pictures???

they may be too large to upload. try resizing them to get them smaller and see if that works

 

[akinsontiles]

What was the breakdown of tiles, adhesives and labour costs on this? You may only get 6k from small claims (if they pay up and don't just go bankrupt instead) but if the tiles are retrievable then you wouldn't necessarily be out of pocket financially. Its all just time and hassle that I'm sure you don't need during a build.

Are you living in the house yet?

 

[lisamahey]

I'd have to work out the breakdown. It was £10k in total but that included bathroom and ensuite. The floor tiles alone cost £3k and then adhesives, grout and labour.
The work started in November and we told them we were due to move in on 1st Dec which the tiler said wouldn't be a problem.......... it clearly was as on 19th December when he left he had only completed 2/3's of the floor.
He subcontracted it out to a guy who worked nights so many days a week so could only give us so many hours per day some days. I could go on with the list of **** ups.
Some of the tiles maybe be retreivable as a couple were taken up when the investigations started. The tiles lifted right off the floor with no adhesive stuck on the floor with it all stuck to the back of the tiles? I have just lifted them again (we placed them back in place so not to danger dogs and children), and the adhesive has just completely fallen away from the tile leaving a smooth surface to the back of the tile. The problem is though (another one) when the loung area was being laid, two tilers were working on it in different directions........when they met at the end the obviously didn't align. These tiles were pulled up and lifted off the floor whole the following day with all the adhesive stuck to the back of them. They were stacked up outside and the tiler has said if i want to re-use them I....I....need to soak each one individually to get the adhesive off!!! The tiles re-used to relay the part they originally cocked up were the tiles to be used for the remainder of the floor. I now don't have enough tiles to finish the room and neither the shop nor the tiler will replace them even though we have it in writing on email from the tiler that he made a bad call on the laying and he would re-lay the section he did wrong.
Part of the reason they don't want to put this right is that we are living there and it will cause major disruption to remove them all sand back and relay. The kitchen has been built on top of the tiles and with large granite breakfast bars they know there will be further problems to re-tile this area. As we were renovating this property and stripped it completley back to a shell, things like door frames have also been built on top of the tiling so will need to come out and be re-fitted afterwards.
The really sad thing about this is that we put our heart and soul and also every penny we own into this house. It gets to the final stages....making look pretty as i like to say and one person can destroy all of your hard work and say tough and walk away. We went through a major branded store thinking we would get the best service and back up if anything would go wrong......how wrong could we have been?
Sorry........I'm venting again

 

[nybor62]

imo the tiler should have noticed it was gyvlon screed ,and done the right prep work, to take the tiles ,and used the right adhesive

the floor should have been sanded down to remove latence, then primed with suitable primer , then tiled with a gypsum based adhesive

 

[akinsontiles]

I think you have chosen a good place to vent your frustrations and I'm sure we all feel for you.

Adhesive sticking to the tile and not the substrate is due to the latence. Adhesive coming off the back of the tile would indicate poor fixing technique. The tiles with adhesive on could be ground down with a sander or angle grinder and no amount of soaking will make any difference to a cement based rapid set adhesive left for nearly three months. It a gloves, goggles and dustmask job to retrieve them now.

The whole thing sounds like a nightmare. Have you decided yet how you think you'll proceed?

 

[DHTiling]

Hi lisa and welcome..

I assume the Gyvlon screed is the LL version.. and this screed is a very low laitence if any but it should be sanded before any priming or tiling is to commence..

But firstly.. Was the wet UFH commissioned before any tiling works commenced and how long had the screed been poured..?.. Did anybody do a moisture content check of the screed to see what the RH value was..?

These need to be answered as well and incorrect preparation work by the tiler.. Where abouts are you as Lafarge could pop out and check this for you..

 

[CJ CERAMICS]

Firstly welcome to the forum
secondly sorry to hear that you have had these problems with your floor tiling.

As Dave has asked how long was the ufh installed before the tiling commenced and did you regulate the temperature so as not to increase it to quickly as this will remove the moisture content form the screed and adhesive too quickly and debond the tiles.

I really hope you get this sorted out withthe right outcome.

chris

 

[widler]

sounds terrible.
sounds like they are both (tile shop/tiler)trying to get out of it.
id just keep on at them,about liability insurence,if you bug them long enough one may give in,because as you soliciter said it may cost you even more,and you may not even win(as daft as it sounds).
also,i don't understand why 2 tilers would start in 2 seperate areas in the same room,a BIG no no IMO!
and please ignore my spelling,my spell check don't work for some reason:furious:

 

[lisamahey]

Thanks for your reply.
I don't think i will be going down the goggles route.
I'm not sure which way I will go to be honest. I have some one coming tomorrow who will do a expert witness report. He is very reputable and comes with great recommendations.
I am told by the store that there is a grey area with regards to their insurance and the tilers insurance, each saying the other is responsible. The store recommended the tiler and say it was through their approved tiler scheme, I did not however sign any agreement with them. As far as I am concerned I was recommended a tiler as being good and called him direct, met him direct to quote and paid him direct to do the labour. I am going to ask for a copy of his insurance and go to them direct as i am getting no-where with the store.
Hopefully with an expert witness report in my favour (fingers crossed) his insurance will make us an offer and we can get some one else in to do the work.
I wouldn't have thought the tiler would go bump to avoid a payout, he has been trading under the same business name for many years here.
I do feel a bit better after reading these responses today. Everyone has been really helpful.

 

[lisamahey]

Thanks for that.
Everyone has said the same about 2 tilers working on the same floor. Common sense really!
I think I will go after the tilers insurance direct. The shop should be ashamed of themselves the way they have treated us. They are just not interested. They've had their money and that's all they care about.

 

[lisamahey]

Thanks Dave,
La Farge technical have already been out and have been brilliant. They have done some moisture testing which was fine. They can test even further if it's needed as proof they have said.
I was an emotional wreck the other day and even their national technical boss guy called to have a chat and re-assure me. They have been brill.
Everyone is telling me the tiler hasn't prepped correctly and that's really re-assuring, I just need something in writing, something fact that say's you as a tiler are responsible for not checking what you were working with and that I as the customer am not liable as I wouldn't have this information.
I'm sure there is something to the likes of this within BSI, I just can't seem to find it anywhere at the mo.

 

[CJ CERAMICS]

sadly Lisa your last comment seems to be the way things are going at the moment. Once payment is made all hands seemed to washed.

I hope you get this sorted. I personnally would send a letter to their head office stating how dissatisfied you are with the after sales service they have offered you and their recommended tiler scheme.

 

[Andy Allen]

if the tiler only has public liablity insurance it wont cover him for bad workmanship only accidents.

 

[akinsontiles]

Hi Lisa, I hope you can get somewhere with this. i think the letter to the head office of the store would be a good start and also just picked up on the insurance issue about whether his workmanship would be covered?

What advice did your solicitor give with regards to who to go for? It would be very interesting if his advice was to pursue the tiler through the courts for all of us here as if you won that case as it may well be a precedent for this sort of action. i would suspect that the 10-15k bill to win the case would be based on the tiler appealling through EU human rights for having his "right to earn a living" taken away from him.

Fully commisioning the UFH is vital as well as allowing the floor to fully dry out. If you have Lafarge's report as expert testimony and the adhesive manufacturer is willing to say that the adhesive is not suitable for tiling directly onto that type of floor then I think that the strongest (and easiest won) case would be against the store (which I am assuming is a Limited company with multiple outlets) as the 7-10k problems could realistically be resolved by a sternly drafted solicitor's letter pointing out their duty of care when selling you materials. Armed with the other evidence then I think you will receive a suitable solution in the end.

Let us know please what the expert witness' opinion is when they see the floor and keep us informed of progress as it is very annoying when we don't find out what happens in the end.