Help! Tilers bodged my shower room!!

[Pernah]

Over to the pro's...

The tiler; professional tiler, second to none with excellent reputation and quality workmanship highly recommended by owner of Tile shop I purchased tiles from.

The job; to tile shower area and half hight both walls to end leaving 15cm from floor for vinyl to have wet room floor.

The work; came home from work to find tiler had not gone the full length of the wall and cut trim and tile short when he came to built in units, phoned him up and he agreed for trim to be pulled out and small tiles to be taken off so he can cut tiles to go around the unit to end of wall - aving pulled of the short cut tile I find dot and dab, thought this was ok as not in shower area then checked to find all tiles dot and dabbed and he also forgot to fit tile to vinyl capping strip at bottom!!

The problem; all the tiles except 2 to finish off above unit have been fixed to wall, the tile capping strip not fitted and grouting waiting to be done - tiler said he's always done this way and not problem as he used waterproof adhesive and tiles will not fall off as better suction on dot dab than full bed, he further explained the grout is what makes the shower walls waterproof not the adhesive behind it and willing to give a 10 year guanratee - in regards the tile vinyl capping strip, tiler denies being told about them even though I showed them before he started and he also bought 12mm trim to use for 8mm thick tiles instead of the 8mm I was advised to be used by store, tiler now saying he wants more money to remove adhesive from behind tiles at bottom to slip in tile vinyl capping strip when I think he shouldn't be paid at all for doing dot and dab on shower area - pointed out instructions on adhesive bag and BS, which he said no-one follows anyway and he's not had a problem or complaints since he's been tiling 12 years ago.

The solution; personally I want all the shower area tiles off and bonded walls to be primed and full covered in bed of waterproof adhesive but this will result in broken tiles; tiler said he does grouting twice to ensure it goes right tp the back as I pointed out risk of cracking or sinking due to voids behind tiles; tiler says he can slip some adhesive behind tiles a bottom and push in trim, which I think would not be watertight as adhesive will get pushed up into voids and risk of water/steam rising behind tiles and causing damage over time...

I've not paid yet and the job was overall 10m2 using 50 x 20 tiles and he claims to have used 2.5 bags of 10kg adhesive and demanding payments in full of £*** - what should I do as I can't afford to risk poor work with 3 kids and shower room mainly for disabled family member, should I -

a) let him finish off and pay in full
b) let him finish off and pay less
c) make him walk and not pay penny
d) get him to take off all tiles and pay for any damaged and redo whole job

Any views, opinions, advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Pernah]

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Although I cannot agree with his spot fixing of the tiles, this thread seems to me to be a break down in communications. From the photos posted I get the impression of a capable tiler doing an ok looking job.

 

[Pernah]

Although I cannot agree with his spot fixing of the tiles, this thread seems to me to be a break down in communications. From the photos posted I get the impression of a capable tiler doing an ok looking job.

Thanks John - and this is where I'm stuck! If I never saw the spot fixing/dot dabbing and he'd grouted tiles, the finished look would've been perfectly acceptable but now knowing tiles dot and dabbed do I let him finish off or get tiles taken off and redone with with extra cost of replacing damaged tiles at thirty pound square metre?

Tiler said he does double grouting to make sure it is filled to back, which I'm sure he wouldn't have if no-one questioned his work or watched him do it... also I suppose easier to get the good levelling he has with d'n'b than would've been if he done properly, which why he took the d'n'b method -honestly, how many tilers would make this decision to keep job simple and customer happy, especially where most customers probably not even aware correct method of fixing tiles.

I had redrow aapartment where bottomg 2 rows of tiles came off after 4 years and had been d'n'b and yesterday my brothers whole shower came apart as water had been seeping through Silicon and gone through wall and floor into neighbouring rooms again tiles d'n'b - i was paying XX for job and one tiler said this is peanuts should i pay him and live with risk associated with d'n'b?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The cost of the peanuts is not really the issue! You want a good job done for your hard earned money and aesthetically this looks a good job IMHO. However you obviously have issues with his and previous dot and dab method of fixing tiles. It's not a method of fixing I'd use however it is done by some and indeed when I first started sand and cement fixing is completed with this method (pads). There is a British Standard for the amount of contact reference coverage on the back of a tile to wall. It is often difficult with large format tiles as you have with a brick bond pattern to get then flat (as tiles can be bowed) and again from your photos his setting out and finish look good.
Where you go from here is your choice - I'd consider a) pay him and let him finished.
Note : my previous post was sent before reading your reply and only looking at the photos. But it would remain the same.
Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Andy Allen]

double grouting....??? never heard or seen such a thing..

 

[Diggy]

there no problem with dabbing on walls and often gives better contact... spreading bed with trowel can often give less suction.

.....Sloblox , try drilling them.


Tiler said he does double grouting to make sure it is filled to back


.......even more sloblox .

As TJ says above , D n D is from a time gone by , which is why we now have such a variety of trowels to cope with the varying formats of tiles we have to use these days.

Is dot and dab fixing OK for tiles?

Diggy

 

[Pernah]

Although I cannot agree with his spot fixing of the tiles, this thread seems to me to be a break down in communications. From the photos posted I get the impression of a capable tiler doing an ok looking job.

Reading between the lines in your reply above... break down in communications - tiler should've picked up uneven walls when first looking at job? tiler should've explained he was going to d'n'd tiles instead of full bed followed by double grouting? tiler should've asked what the plastic material is that i showed him and left with all other materials for him to work with? tiler should asked where to finish off tiles if he couldn't remember instead of guessing, cutting trim and tile short? tiler not explaining he going to do 10 m2 tiling in 9 hours with 2 hours grouting to follow when originally explained 2 full days (1 being 8-9 hrs) work?

Where's the break down in communication? Maybe I missed something?

You seem to be happy with the progress being made to a good finish, compare this to a house where the foundations laid and half house built upwards before you find out foundations not done to reg (assume builder used own inspector which he has good relationship and got passed feeing fee's) would you continue to have rest of house built and pay builder knowing you're living in house with incorrect foundations?

Above example may be extreme but the message for any tradesman is explain to customer what you're doing and explain anything you're not happy about before doing job rather finding yourself in position where customer not happy, pointing out faults, jeopordising relationship and future custom, witholdin payment, tradesman annoyed and going home upset, possily affecting his behaviour with family, imapcted on financially as time and materials on job gone to waste...

Apologies if I've gone off on one but please try to understand customers perspective - I'd already seen d'n'b not acceptable on this site before tiling job given so the views of professionals on such websites goes to impact on probably all people in trade as standards and methods become obvious...

 

[DHTiling]

a) let him finish off and pay in full .... You are not happy with said quality , so why let him finish.?

b) let him finish off and pay less .... No, because if you let him finish then you are accepting said quality and paying less is a contradicition IMO

c) make him walk and not pay penny ... He has to be given the chance to rectify what you are not happy with but if a mutual agreement for him to leave was decided then ok.

d) get him to take off all tiles and pay for any damaged and redo whole job .... This decision is yours and between you and your tiler IMO.

Any views, opinions, advice would be greatly appreciated!


We can advise whether a job is done to BS5385 but we cannot decide if you should or should not pay anyone ... just my take on it..

 

[DHTiling]

Can i ask you to input in this thread please... basicly interested in how you chose tiler etc and your thoughts...>>>>> http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/67908-bodged-up-jobs.html

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Reading between the lines in your reply above... break down in communications - tiler should've picked up uneven walls when first looking at job? tiler should've explained he was going to d'n'd tiles instead of full bed followed by double grouting? tiler should've asked what the plastic material is that i showed him and left with all other materials for him to work with? tiler should asked where to finish off tiles if he couldn't remember instead of guessing, cutting trim and tile short? tiler not explaining he going to do 10 m2 tiling in 9 hours with 2 hours grouting to follow when originally explained 2 full days (1 being 8-9 hrs) work?

Where's the break down in communication? Maybe I missed something?

You seem to be happy with the progress being made to a good finish, compare this to a house where the foundations laid and half house built upwards before you find out foundations not done to reg (assume builder used own inspector which he has good relationship and got passed feeing fee's) would you continue to have rest of house built and pay builder knowing you're living in house with incorrect foundations?

Above example may be extreme but the message for any tradesman is explain to customer what you're doing and explain anything you're not happy about before doing job rather finding yourself in position where customer not happy, pointing out faults, jeopordising relationship and future custom, witholdin payment, tradesman annoyed and going home upset, possily affecting his behaviour with family, imapcted on financially as time and materials on job gone to waste...

Apologies if I've gone off on one but please try to understand customers perspective - I'd already seen d'n'b not acceptable on this site before tiling job given so the views of professionals on such websites goes to impact on probably all people in trade as standards and methods become obvious...

Like all disgruntled tiling threads an opinion can only be given on the information provide. When this comes in drifts and drabs and there are obviously other issues that you are not happy with, then advice that was originally provided may not be considered satisfactory!
If you are looking for a way to find a solution to your situation then I go back to my original post which suggested you go back to the Tile Shop which recommended him.
As for the customers perspective any advice I give on this forum are solely my own views having been in my trade for 40 years and I try to offer impartial comments without taking sides with such limited information. I find the analogy of a house foundations and his method of fixing tiles interesting, however I repeat my earlier post where it was common for large format materials such tiles, marble and vitralite to be fixed for many years using his method of support .