Hi, looking for some support with first travertine bathroom. Thank you

[Beags]

Hi everyone,

I'm a couple of weeks away from beginning my first tiling job in my bathroom. I've been searching this site for several days now and have a few ideas but there's just so much to absorb and I would be really grateful for some clarity.

I'd like to be able to give something back but at the moment I'm all questions - one day I hope!

My plan for my 10ft by 7ft victorian terrace bathroom is as follows....

• full pedestal basin, close coupled toilet, bath with shower over and valves etc built behind a pertition wall, victorian style radiator & one window to tile around.
• 12mm 400mm x 400mm medium unfilled travertine floor tiles
• 12mm 400mm x 600mm medium unfilled travetine wall tiles
• Currently cermaic tiles on skimmed plasterboard which I plan to remove and replace with new plasterboard. I don't think there is a stud wall behind the plasterboard but just the old brickwork, I suspect it is bonded rather than screwed and plugged
• I believe the floor is currently ply wood which I may replace with the same to keep cost to a miniumum

I would appreciate help from anyone with a few questions which are:

1. Can I replace the plasterboard and using a dot & dab technique rather than plugging and screwing into the old brickwork?
2. What adhesive should I use for a) the floor and b) the walls? Can I use the same stuff? Waterproof for all the room?
3. Do I need to prime the plaster board? If so, with what?
4. Should I seal before laying the tiles as well as after?
5. What's a good colour grout for medium coloured travertine and leading from that question, what grout should I use?
6. When grouting, can I spread the grout over the entire tile as you would with ceramic or do I need to be more precise when filling the gaps on travertine?
7. What's a good tile spacer size for these size tiles?
8. Best notch size for spreading adhesive on walls and floor?
9. How big a gap should I leave between where the bottom wall tile meets the floor tile... and what about internal corners?
10. I'm going to get a Rubi 180 for this job. What do I need for drilling though the tiles for radiator pipes and other fixtures and fittings such as toilet roll holder and towel rail?
11. Do I need to use silicone anywhere? If so, what would you recommend?
12. Is anyone against using Lithofin sealants? If not, what specific product should I use to keep the stone looking as natural as possible?
13. Presumably the process is... remove existing tiles and suite, temporary fit new sanitaryware, sort plumbing, remove new sanitaryware, tile walls (apart from bottom tile), tile floor, tile bottom wall tile, final for on new sanitaryware? Does anyone disagree?

I think that's it for now. Sorry to be so prescriptive but it helps me to try lay my thoughts out on paper (head's all over the shop at the minute).

Thank you very much
Chris

 

[Daz]

Hi Chris,

I think you've already received most of your answers in previous threads, now, but I'll add to some areas that I haven't seen answered as yet.

Can I replace the plasterboard and using a dot & dab technique rather than plugging and screwing into the old brickwork? I think it was suggested to plug and screw tile backer boards
What adhesive should I use for a) the floor and b) the walls? Can I use the same stuff? Waterproof for all the room? White flexible cement based adhesive is what you require, I would use either Mapei, Ardex or BAL, but deffo not DIY store cheap stuff
Do I need to prime the plaster board? If so, with what? Depending on the adhesive manufacturer, use their recommended acrylic primer
Should I seal before laying the tiles as well as after? As the trav is unfilled, I would fix and grout (but make sure you work cleanly) then apply sealer once everything has fully dried
What's a good colour grout for medium coloured travertine and leading from that question, what grout should I use? I like grouts from Mapei, Ardex and BAL so take your pick. I usually use a jasmine / limestone / ivory colour
When grouting, can I spread the grout over the entire tile as you would with ceramic or do I need to be more precise when filling the gaps on travertine? You need to work the grout into all the unfilled areas of the trav as well as the grout joints
What's a good tile spacer size for these size tiles? I would use 3mm, but some will suggest that you can get away with 2mm
Best notch size for spreading adhesive on walls and floor? I would recommend a 10mm notched trowel
How big a gap should I leave between where the bottom wall tile meets the floor tile... and what about internal corners? No more than 2mm
I'm going to get a Rubi 180 for this job. What do I need for drilling though the tiles for radiator pipes and other fixtures and fittings such as toilet roll holder and towel rail? I use 365drills, check the forum sponsor links on the left hand side and you will be able to click through to their website
Do I need to use silicone anywhere? If so, what would you recommend? Silicone all internal corners and around all sanitary
Is anyone against using Lithofin sealants? If not, what specific product should I use to keep the stone looking as natural as possible? I usually use LTP Mattstone for travertine, but Lithofin MN Stain Stop is good too
Presumably the process is... remove existing tiles and suite, temporary fit new sanitaryware, sort plumbing, remove new sanitaryware, tile walls (apart from bottom tile), tile floor, tile bottom wall tile, final for on new sanitaryware? Does anyone disagree? Yep! you got it!

Good luck and don't forget the pics when done!

Daz

 

[Beags]

Hi Daz,

Thank you for your reply. It was very kind of you to take the time.

I understand that tile backer boards are the best solution and that I really shouldn't cut corners but I have already stretched my budget too far and have decided to use plasterboard. Given that there's no wood behind the current skimmed plasterboard, can I remove and dot and dab? Do you think this will this give the same strength as screwing?

Cheers
Chris

 

[Daz]

Dot & Dab plasterboard should be okay if you are fixing it to sand cement render or blockwork. If you are D&D'ing to skimmed plaster then you will be wasting more time and money. For the minimal amount of extra aggro, why not plug and screw the plasterboards as well as D&D'ing, at least then you have piece of mind. After all you don't want a lump of trav landing on your baby making gear whilst laying in the bath do you?

It is good practice to tank (waterproof) the wall area around shower / bath too , more dosh, sorry! This will prevent a breakdown of plasterboard, should water ingress occur, and therefore protect your crown jewels, too.

 

[DHTiling]

Don't forget the pics...

 

[Daz]

Don't forget the pics...

I've already mentioned that Dave :lol:.

 

[doug boardley]

Cap'n's got this one covered I think!

 

[Beags]

Hi,

I've just had a thought. I'd like to install a mirror into the back wall of my bathroom. I've attached an image. Basically I'd like to install a rectangular mirror the full width of the back wall from about half way up to the point where the ceiling begins to slope. This should help make my relatively small bathroom feel a little larger.

Above the bath (below the said mirror) and above the mirror I will use the travertine I mentioned. These tiles will be on either plasterboard or tile backer board.

My question is.... do I need to tile behind the mirror..... if not, what can I do to waterproof whatever it is that I choose to tile onto?

Good idea or not?:dizzy2:

 

[White Room]

If you do put screws fixings into the plasterboard, put them thru where the adhesive is and don't go thru the paper surface of the board otherwise it becomes useless

 

[doug boardley]

I'd tile behind the mirror, it's a hassle trying to tile round one

 

[Daz]

I've done it both ways.

Personally, I would mark the area that I want the mirror to be fixed and then tile around it (you may need a baton to keep the top row from slipping). I'd then get a local glazier to cut the mirror to exact size, allowing for a 2mm perimeter gap. The mirror is fixed with mirror adhesive (glazier will supply) and can be packed out with mirror packers and "great big mushroom head" dollops of adhesive, so that you get the mirror flush with tiles - "Simples!".

Just silicone the gap after fixing with a high modulus silicone .

 

[DHTiling]

A mirror in the shower hey!!!.....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Tecnik2000]

Captain slow has described exactly what I did last week & it looks great,I'll just add though I kept the perimeter gap to match the the grout joint size so it ran in line,it was colour matched with mapei 111 light grey so there was no colour difference.Taped off the joint both sides,left the bottom joint till all was set,removed packing, gunned in bottom. One other thing was to get the mirror polished edges all round,any glass shop will do this.. Good liuk

 

[Beags]

Just thinking about specific adhesives now. I think I'm going to go with Mapei products if possible. For tiling the travertine onto the plasterboards I was going to use Kerraflex. Is this suitable?

I suspect I'll end up tiling onto WBP. If I do this, is the Kerraflex also suitable for my flooring work? I see there is a Kerraflex Maxi S1 which seems a little more expensive and perhaos doesn't give the same coverage for a 20kg bag.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thinking about grouts for a moment, I see there's Ultracolour Plus and Kerracolour FF. Ultracolour is about twice the price. What's the difference and is one more suitable than the other for my travertine job?

Thanks
Chris

 

[aqua blue]

Beags if you are on a strict budget, why dont you skip the tanking and go for a waterproof resin grout instead. (Mapie Opticolour)

 

[Beags]

Hi Aqua Blue,

Thanks for that. Just googled it and found a chap from Mapei demonstrating it on youtube. Haven't found a price yet but there didn;t look to be much once he'd mixed it up. I'll keep researching though.

Thank you

 

[aqua blue]

http://www.tilersforums.com/us-canadian-tile-setting-forum-tile/8690-mapei-opticolor-new-grout.html

I haven't used it yet but would like to for obvious reasons. Here is an old TF page with a chap called William who has put this product through it's paces with impressive results. Try calling Mapie for price and supplier.

 

[Daz]

Just thinking about specific adhesives now. I think I'm going to go with Mapei products if possible. For tiling the travertine onto the plasterboards I was going to use Kerraflex. Is this suitable?

I suspect I'll end up tiling onto WBP. If I do this, is the Kerraflex also suitable for my flooring work? I see there is a Kerraflex Maxi S1 which seems a little more expensive and perhaos doesn't give the same coverage for a 20kg bag.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thinking about grouts for a moment, I see there's Ultracolour Plus and Kerracolour FF. Ultracolour is about twice the price. What's the difference and is one more suitable than the other for my travertine job?

Thanks
Chris

Hi Chris,

A quick comment regarding the grout advice that you have been given. The only Mapei grouts that I have used are Ultracolour Plus and Kerapoxy Design with glitter. The Ultracolour Plus is a really good grout but you must follow the mixing and usage information correctly. For a grout to be truly waterproof it will need to be an epoxy grout such as the Kerapoxy product. Now, I don't know anything about the Opticolour product so I cannot advise whether it is an epoxy grout or not.

As you are a novice tiler I would strongly advise you to stay away from epoxy grouts as they are not the easiest to work with, and on un-sealed travertine you will be inviting trouble. Therefore, my advise is to spend money on tanking as it will save you a fortune and a lot of aggro in the future.

I'd recommend using Keraflex Maxi in white for fixing the trav and remember to prime the plasterboards with Primer G first. You can use it for the floor, too, but please tank the floor for piece of mind and remember that it is a standard setting adhesive so you will not be able to walk on it for 24 hours.

Good luck,

Daz

 

[Beags]

Hi Daz,

Really useful - thank you very much. If you don't mind I have anther little question or.... two....

I have now opted for honed and filled travertive. Took the plunge and bought it yesterday (woohoo). As this is being delivered before my big week off work on the 29th (!), I was hoping to seal it before laying it and then sealing again after grouting? Do you think that's a good idea?

On the subject of grout, can you confirm that the Ultracolour
Plus is not an epoxy grout? ie I'll be ok to use it aslong as I mix it correctly?

Thanks for the pointer on the priming of the plasterboard as well. This was something I wasn't 100% on... I thought it was maybe just gypsum plaster and not plasterboard that needed priming.

When you say tank it in reference to both the walls and the floor - am I right in saying you mean something more than using the Primer G? I was kinda hoping if I sealed everything at least a couple of times and kept on top of it then I'd be ok? Sorry... it must be very frustrating giving advice to amateurs who are seemingly looking to cuts corners and cost. I do want a good finish and for it to last but at the same time I've probably put too much into this house already... money pit that it is.

Cheers
Chris

 

[Daz]

Chris,

Don't worry about all the questions, that's what makes this place so much fun.

Right tanking.....You really need to get a tanking kit for the floor area and the wet wall areas. Worst case scenario, you will end up spending only a small amount at Topps Tiles on Homelux tanking (which is perfectly good). Do it!

I would agree that with honed and filled trav, you should seal, fix, grout then seal again.

Mapei Ultracolour Plus is not an epoxy and you will be fine provided you follow instructions on the bag and work a small area at a time.

Good luck and we're all looking forward to the pics .

Daz

 

[aqua blue]

Captain Slow, Opticolour is a resin based grout that Mapei claim is waterproof.

If someone here knows differently please let us know.

 

[Daz]

Now, I don't know anything about the Opticolour product so I cannot advise whether it is an epoxy grout or not.
As you are a novice tiler I would strongly advise you to stay away from epoxy grouts as they are not the easiest to work with, and on un-sealed travertine you will be inviting trouble.

As I said Aqua.......:lol:

Either way, I would advise a novice to avoid epoxy and resin based grouts 'cos they are much more awkward to work with.

 

[aqua blue]

Captain Slow have you seen the Mapei video demo I posted on another thread. It's a piece of cake. No boiling water.

 

[aqua blue]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCPZFPIqsE]YouTube - MAPEI OPTICOLOR GROUT APPLICATION DEMO[/ame]

As isaid Captain Slow......:lol:

 

[aqua blue]

OptiColor Stain Free Grout

More info for anyone that may be interested in trying this easy to use epoxy grout