Is it me.......or is it Able Skills?

[cornish_crofter]

There are still apprenticeships around like yours. It's just that in our day, one used to train as a plumber and that was that, now we can train as bathroom fitter, CH engineers etc.

 

[simhopper]

Sean

You'll find that installing a shower tray is not that dissimilar to installing a bath. You've just got to think about what you're doing

The thing is with plumbing, I have never done a course but have learned as I went as it were. Having done a load of installations and had only one issue with a shower recently (followed manufaturer's instructions which was useless and got a leak in the cubicle) I am probably 'time served'.

Good luck with the course.

Being able to fit a bathroom suite does not make you time served.How do you know the work that your doing is to the correct standard?

Can you braze,do leadwork,Do you have a plumbing qualification?if you dont chances are your public liability will not pay out if something goes wrong

I use a labourer who has recently passed a 6129nvq in plumbing at a cost of £5.5k,his knowledge of materials is nil,what he thinks is correctly is generally wrong yet he thinks he is more than capable of going into someones property to work.....

City and guilds have made a mockery of

 

[White Room]

Being able to fit a bathroom suite does not make you time served.How do you know the work that your doing is to the correct standard?

Can you braze,do leadwork,Do you have a plumbing qualification?if you dont chances are your public liability will not pay out if something goes wrong

I use a labourer who has recently passed a 6129nvq in plumbing at a cost of £5.5k,his knowledge of materials is nil,what he thinks is correctly is generally wrong yet he thinks he is more than capable of going into someones property to work.....

City and guilds have made a mockery of

Who do's leadwork nowadays, I was taught that 38 years ago and lead pipes are so scarce

 

[simhopper]

Who do's leadwork nowadays, I was taught that 38 years ago and lead pipes are so scarce

Theres still plenty of sheet lead work out there and thats where the money is

Edinburgh still has masses of lead in its tenements,from flashings to pipe

Might be scarce down south but not up here

 

[lucius]

We could still learn many trades years ago as i indeed did it just took a lot longer and usualy entailed working for a proper building firm who was willing to teach you, not many of them about any more rather than subbies who are only interested in production with no regard for quality.
Their is still plenty of lead pipe in Spain, i use a retired motor mechanic to sweat my pipes who learnt how to do this as part of his apprenticip many years ago.
Lucius

 

[cornish_crofter]

Being able to fit a bathroom suite does not make you time served.How do you know the work that your doing is to the correct standard?

Can you braze,do leadwork,Do you have a plumbing qualification?if you dont chances are your public liability will not pay out if something goes wrong

You're right. I am not time served, I worked alongside a Timer Served plumber when doing jobs on my own house, namely re routing the central heating system. I've also worked alongside Time Served plumbers in other work as well. I've had time served plumbers compleiment me on my plumbing work, saying it is a refreshing change from the rubbish they often see on other jobs where a handyman has been let loose at 1/3 of their rate.

I can solder quite well. Recently I had to solder pipes that were buried under a screed using normal gas (not Mapp gas). I managed to dry the pipework out and solder it without any problems.

I can't do lead, I don't want to be able to sweat lead, I don't feel there is anything to gain from knowing this and there is plenty to lose in terms of my health. I use lead locks if I have to, but I suggest that lead pipes be replaced as a first option.

As for my liability insurance I am covered. I am with Direct Line under a general builder policy. I am limited as to what I can do but fitting out bathrooms etc is well within my insured scope. They know I don't have the qualifications. I checked about the hot working limitations (previous co wouldn't cover me for hot working in the roofspace, something I try to avoid doing anyway).

I am not covered for working on gas, not that I would want to anyway, I don't even do gas in my own house even though legally I am allowed to. My RGI friend does all that for me. Interestingly enough the law would also let me work on gas in our let properties! I don't like that one little bit! It's because the work would not be for profit, in other words its not being done as part of a service I'm providing.

There are several tradesman in my area that work across a number of trades.

On another forum there was a chap who did one of these courses, he was a scaffolder before and he was asked to fit a new kitchen sink. He supplied all the materials and ended up charging the customer around £500! It took him most of the day apparently. He posted a picture of what he had done. It didn't look too bad.

It astonishes me how someone who had been on such a course would have struggled with that in the way he did when I could probably have done it in a couple of hours. It wasn't even an inset sink, it was an older fashioned sink top.

 

[White Room]

We had a church down my way and the steeple was done in lead and was fluted, incredible work

 

[cornish_crofter]

We could still learn many trades years ago as i indeed did it just took a lot longer and usualy entailed working for a proper building firm who was willing to teach you, not many of them about any more rather than subbies who are only interested in production with no regard for quality.
Their is still plenty of lead pipe in Spain, i use a retired motor mechanic to sweat my pipes who learnt how to do this as part of his apprenticip many years ago.
Lucius

My point exactly, you would learn every plumbing trade. Nowdays you just learn the ones you need.

The problem is that the workforce is much more transient than it was several years ago. I started as a degree qualified engineer, when I got made redundant it was a choice between moving or changing job. People simpy don't have the time to train at minimum wage for 4 years anymore, unless they leave school at 16. People who are retraining have families to support and mortgages to pay, they need to keep working and earning a reasonable wage.

I'm not saying you're wrong, indeed I agree with you that general construction qualifications have become much more diluted. Having said that I can understand why.

I do think that resoursefulness far outweighs training in terms of an attribute. You can't take full advantage of the training you receive if you can't think outside the box. On the other hand you need to know that you're doing the right thing before you can think around the problem in hand and use your initiative.

There are plenty of qualified tradesmen out there that are a danger to themselves and others. They have the qualification but you do wonder how they got it. On the other hand there are plenty of guys who've come into the trade without any qualifications but know what they're doing.

Ideally you want qualifications and aptitude. I at least have the aptitude, so I believe anyway, maybe I should do a short couse 😉

 

[lucius]

Cornish dont do the course youl end up bitter and twisted like me.
Lucius

 

[Sean Kelly]

Done it................back home now...........strange experience...........not sure if I should edit the review before I post it in the review section. This company is a sponsor of Tilersforums so I have only posted it in this thread. What do you guys think?

Monday started after 09:00. Lunch for an hour, and two 15 minute tea breaks. We packed up, cleaned our work bench and were ready to leave site at 16.15. The course times stipulated are 08:30-16:30 !
The course instructor did not introduce himself nor did he explain the course agenda. We went through plumbing tools, and then we were taught how to measure, cut & solder copper tubing. The afternoon was spent on 2 projects to practice what we learned earlier.
I and the other students noticed that the instructor was hardly in the workshop. He was not acting like a teacher. He came across very reserved. I was having second thoughts about this guy and his teaching methods.
Tuesday started at 08:30. Lunch for 45 minutes and two 15 minute tea breaks. We were out the door at the end of the day at 16:25.
We spent the first 30 minutes finishing off what we did not finish the previous day. One of the students that had finished his job was told to help another student that was a bit behind. The course instructor then disappeared for 30 mins.
When the lesson resumed we were taught about the different types of taps & valves. During tea break I asked the instructor about his background. He told me that he had been a plumber for 22 years. I asked him why he was teaching. He told me that this was his last week of teaching because he did not like it. It was boring him and he admitted he was fed up with the same old questions from students. After break we were shown how to bend 15mm and 22mm copper tubing. We spent the rest of the morning bending. We finished the day with a project involving what we had learned during the past 2 days. I must admit that the instructor was with us for most of the afternoon, until his replacement arrived. His replacement was then shown the ropes while we continued with our tasks.
Wednesday started at 08:00 when I asked to speak privately to the owner of Ableskills. I had to air my feelings about the first 2 days teaching methods and the fact that the tutor did not like teaching. The owner (Gary) was very surprised to hear what I had to say. He stated that the tutor had always received positive feedback. Gary promised me that he would sort out the issue. When the course started at 08:30 it was like being taught by a totally different tutor. We started the day by finishing off the project we started the previous day. We then spent the rest of the day learning about valves, toilet flush systems, types of fittings (traps & wastes), plastic tubing & connectors. We watched a demonstration of how to attach fittings onto a basin, bath & toilet. The final part of the day was spent fitting out the fittings on a bathroom suite in readiness for the Thursday task of plumbing in a bathroom from scratch.
Thursday was taken up with fitting out a bathroom. This involved plumbing in a bath, basin & toilet. We had to measure, cut & bend copper pipes. However, before work started we were given a brief theory and demonstration involving the use of a ‘heat mat’. On the bathroom task we used various joins & compression fittings and we worked out the best methods for routing pipe work. When the task was completed it was pressure tested.
Friday started with plumbing in the waste for the bath & toilet we installed on Thursday. The instructor gave us a demonstration of how to connect 2 plastic pipes together without using a connector. We were also shown how to bend plastic pipes by using the heat from a blow torch. When the bathroom task was completed we then ripped out everything from our mock bathroom. Next came a theory session on understanding how a Fully Pumped Gravity fed system works. i.e. how a household heating & water system works. Then we had an explanation of how a combination boiler works. After lunch we were taught how a radiator works. Then we installed a radiator in our mock bathroom. When this was completed we ripped it out again. The final part of the day was spent with questions and answers.
Summary: I still got out of the course what I wanted, despite the shaky start. There was a good measure of practical (hands on) experience. There is a lot of material to cover in 5 days. One extra day would have been perfect. The handouts were next to useless, as these were photocopies of a few pages from a book. I found that taking pictures with a camera phone was my best form of reference. The tools, materials & workshop were of a good standard. Free tea & coffee was a nice touch. I would recommend the course and I would say it was good value for money.
Last line: I am not calling myself a qualified plumber. I am not looking for work as a plumber. I will now use my new found skills as a complement to my skills as a tiler. I can now confidently give the customer the option of lifting their toilet, remove their basin or remove a radiator in order to achieve a better finish to my job. I will of course charge extra for this service.
Cheers
Sean