Is it me.......or is it Able Skills?

[bigandy]

thanks for the feed back sean its always nice to hear how these training courses are as i am one for improving my basic skills in other areas

 

[lucius]

The definition of train is to teach a person or animal or ones self to a specified skill by practice, practice being an habitual action i doupt if you have gained these habitual actions on the things you have been shown in five days so why are these establishments advertising five day training courses they are not they are introductory / insight courses possibly for people who want to mess about on their properties before they have to get us in to put it right, bring back proper apprenticeships.
Bitter and twisted Lucius

 

[kilty55]

some of these courses are quite good actually luscius. giving many people the opportunity to learn new skills that they probably didnt have the chance to do when younger.surely just being part of the forum itself says you wish to learn from and offer advice to others on here of which lots and lots are course taught tilers?

 

[cornish_crofter]

Thanks for that Sean

The only thing I have not done is bending plastic pipe with a torch! I've always known it to be possible but have always used 135 degree bends if I need to put a kink in it.

Other than that I doubt I would get much out of a course. I was thinking of doing a similar course to make sure I'm on the right track but, having worked alongside TS plumbers I'm fairly confidant I am.

As to the quality of the first two days, if I had parted with my hard earned cash for that I'm not sure I would have had your patience, I would be asking about a refund if I had found out I was being taught by a lecturer who didn't want to be there. How selfish of him to put his own disgruntled feelings in front of delivering the service that the delegates had paid for. You worked hard to earn that money Sean and, I'm sorry I feel that you were insulted in this kind of response. I'm glad you got it sorted though.

Thanks for your review Sean, but I'm not convinced I would go to Able Skills - not that they are in the right area of the country for me anyway.

 

[lucius]

Killty my friend you are not listening what i am saying is that these companys are offering 5 day courses for a huge amount of money showing you how to do certain things but it isnt training, if you expect to go out in the big wild world and work in peoples houses you need training and then you start to gain experiance, my opinion is that all training should be central run and properly as it used to be,oh and by the way DIY should be illegal or is that to radical.
Lucius without the s

 

[kilty55]

hi luscius i am listening to your points,,i agree it would be beter if more apprenticeships were available for sure however thats not real life now either,on the same note ive had a number of fully trained tradesmen do work in my house over the years and a lot of them have done poor quality work.i suppose its sourcing a good training school thats the key to getting a good start,,i myself did a course which i thought was very good with 2 guys who were very interested in training me.i sonce have gone on to do hundreds of jobs in peoples houses and have used this forum as a source for any info i needed along the way,,,,which by the way was plenty.if you have the right attitude,,damn hard worker and some decent training behind you i dont see why you canyt succeed from doing a course,,,you learn a lot more than just diy skills from some of these courses,can i also ask you as your profile says your a timeserved brickie..and plasterer..and joiner...and tiler have you yourself done 4 apprenticeships or did you do one apprenticeship and learn the rest as you went along?

 

[Sean Kelly]

Lucius, we are now living in a world where the customer (me) wants something now. I don't want to wait for a school year to start before I can attend a course. I don't want to attend night school or college and learn over several months/years. These courses exist because there is a demand. For example, the course has given me the confidence to remove a toilet and put it back in a different place. I do not know any plumbers that will teach me this skill. In fact, I do not know any plumbers. The thing is Lucius, how long should one train? If the course was for 4 weeks and cost £1500 would that be ok for you? or maybe 8 weeks at £3000. The course is not a one stop shop to becoming a plumber. In fact it barely touches the tip of the plumbing iceberg. I was taught the ‘module’ that fitted my requirement and I was happy with the end result, which was driving the 70 miles home with a list of new skills. Cheers Sean

 

[lucius]

Sean good luck to you, as i have said before if this is the way forward nowdays you have no choice.
Lucius.

 

[faithhealer]

Good luck Sean, pm with any questions

 

[cornish_crofter]

I am a degree qualified engineer and was working for a large aerospace and defence subcontractor in the South West until 2003.

Now, due to the dynamics of the organisation changing, an ever increasing number of assembly technicians were doing their own problem solving on the line. This worked up to a point. Technicians who knew the product well could use their own expertees to a certain extent or discuss some issue with their teams, and a solution could be found that way. However there was usually a limit as to what they could do in this respect.

There were two ways in which the engineers would get involved.

1) The engineer would be called upon if there was a proposed deviation from the specification, and he would have to draft a concession form to be signed off by Product Assurance. If this deviation was permanent, it would have to reflect in a change instruction to the spec.

2) The problem was out of the scope of expertese of the guys and girls working on the line, and the engineer, with his superior knowledge or access to knowledge would come and help solve the problem. Invariably the answers lay within the team or very close by, it just took the engineer to know which was the best method to apply.

About 10 years ago the company went through some fairly radical changes and line supervisors were encouraged to facilitate and make bigger technical decisions. Many of them had years of experience with products, and some had engineering HNCs etc. But some, though very able individuals did not have the training that this needed.

As a result, many engineers felt dispondant that technical decisions were being taken by people who were not up to taking them. Some fairly serious quality issues arose as a result of this and it was starting to cost the company dear in some areas.

It soon became apparent that a little knowledge was a dangerous thing. The organisation had blurred the boundaries and lost control in this respect. Previously boundaries were respected. Some people with initiative pushed them a bit but they were respected. For example suggestions that they made were run past the engineers and assessed. Now any tom dick or harry could make technical decisions, and the engineers lost control over the technical input into the product and the line.

This is the point that Lucious is making. However he sees that plumbing should be left to the plumbers. I can see value in bathroom fitters focusing on specific areas, as opposed to trying to do everything that a plumber does. After all, that's what the technicians were doing before, and with good results.