Moisture & Efflorescence Coming Through Grout

[MW Smith Ceramics]

Hi all, I've had to come to the arms now to get a definitive solution to a problem I'm having with a floor I laid a year ago, feedback would really be appreciated as I need to get this sorted and put it to bed......so here we go details as follows.........it's abit long sorry!

Okay so I removed some 20mm thick quarry tiles from a hallway in a 1930,s property exactly 12 months ago as a lot of them were loose and debonding, so removed the tiles easily enough, just a few areas of sand & cement came away in patches so I used ardex a46 to repair, the floor was abit lower than I wanted so used TM Levelflex to make good up to 25mm in places so I could just solid bed fix new 300 x 300 porcelain........tiled floor using TM rapid flex and got the level perfect to existing rooms off the hallway.......had a phone call just before xmas from the client 8 months later saying some of the grout joints were moist and there was a white substance sitting on the grout - (effloressence ) grout used was butch from Porcelanosa.....so I went out and floor is solid no debonding/ grout cracking but some of the grout joints had darkened and seemed wet & effloressence on alot but not all areas.......so I removed with LTP grout stain remover - ( come up lovely ) but 3 weeks later had a call from client with the same problem......so after speaking with different technical advisors ardex, Bal , Mapei etc they are basically talking about using a liquid DPM.......as long as it's suitable to use on TM Levelflex......if not ardex have suggested laying Schluter 25 with a moisture tolerant adhesive like ardex X7 so spoke to Schluter said it may work but couldn't guarantee it..........

Oh also there was no DPM underneath the sand & cement on areas I patched up but they didn't have them back then after talking to various advisors the cause could be the fact that thick porous quarry's that were originally there were accommodating any moisture and then it was release elsewhere but now they have been removed and porcelain laid ( non porous ) with any moisture having nowhere to go but up through the grout??......I'm abit lost on this one to cause and solution.....


Any feedback would be really appreciated, I'm taking the floor up today and will know more then.......what would you guys suggest here?

Many thanks

Mark

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

15mm bed maximum on the Levelflex sorry

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

Sand & cement screed was also bone dry when I removed existing tiles

 

[J Sid]

any other work been done in property? I thinking check adjacent room floors for any signs of possible leaking rad pipes. Will need to lift carpets up to take moisture readings.

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

Hi Julian,

All the rooms off the hallway are old wood flooring & no work done before me, also had a plumber out to check the house for any leaks and no sign of that......I've started taking some of the floor up this morning and the surface was damp in places.......so back to the latex now and looks dry......pictures before, when tiles removed and then after adhesive removed as follows......

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

The adhesive is slightly damp on the surface .......so I'm thinking when I've got this floor up so this doesn't happen again maybe latex over with a moisture tolerant latex like arditex na then lay some ditra 25 or a liquid dpm that's fine to go onto the latex then tile?.....any suggestions people as I can't have this again

 

[Flintstone]

It's certainly a strange one! Is it your fault and duty to resolve it free of charge? I'm not so sure.

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

It's a tricky one yeah as no dpm in the floor anyhow.....just interfering with this floor and using a different material I think has caused it as I can't put it down to anything else but I've offered to sort it on this occasion as its my reputation on the line and I guarantee every job I do so I,ll have the floor up tomorrow and looking at then latexing over the floor with moisture tolerant arditex na, then laying Schluter ditra 25 with moisture tolerant ardex x7g then fixing new tiles with TM standard setaflex and Mapei ultracolour floor grout & hopefully that will do the job unless anyone else has got any better ideas......???

 

[Lithofin BOB]

Is there a possible risk with moisture being forced to the walls , or does the moisture tolerant package , let this migrate slower or push elsewhere . Have many natural floors that can't be sealed due to migrating moisture and need to be left fully breathable.

 

[Spud]

I think you have a leak somewhere

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

Is there a possible risk with moisture being forced to the walls , or does the moisture tolerant package , let this migrate slower or push elsewhere . Have many natural floors that can't be sealed due to migrating moisture and need to be left fully breathable.

Hello there Bob,

I'm guessing it would drain off elsewhere, maybe s risk to the walls.....as long as it doesn't come up through the grout!....well I hope!....I'm basically going off ardex technical......are you saying you have layed stone floors that take in the moisture so can't ever be sealed......I,ve been looking this up and a lot of vinyl layers use 2 coats of liquid dpm by ardex then arditex na if there's a chance moisture will migrate to the surface.....so that could be an option.....what would do in this situation bob?....thanks

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

I think you have a leak somewhere

Hi Gary,

Floors half up now back to the latex, no sign of any leaks & everything was bone dry when I installed the porcelain.too......I've left the floor for today so will go back tomorrow and see if surface of latex is still dry as it was when I left

 

[Lithofin BOB]

Hi, sorry, not a tiler ( although I seem to have the banner on here) restored many and specified many new floor that will require to breath or for clean ups and then maintained only , not sealed ( always older floors) . Impregnators are breathable to a degree, but on older floors with issues and no dpm we steer clear.

I am not experienced enough on this to comment on the install, sorry just concerned if there was moisture ,where it was going to end up

 

[J Sid]

I see there is a radiator where you a lifting tiles, that really needs to ruled out as a possible leak problem.
the pipe, if copper, could have not been lagged properly and the screed could be corroding it.

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

I see there is a radiator where you a lifting tiles, that really needs to ruled out as a possible leak problem.
the pipe, if copper, could have not been lagged properly and the screed could be corroding it.

Good point there Julian,

Client did say they had a plumber check the rad out & all was fine but is it!......think I'll have a look at that tomorrow as I'll be lifting more tiles right underneath the rad in the morning.......

Hi, sorry, not a tiler ( although I seem to have the banner on here) restored many and specified many new floor that will require to breath or for clean ups and then maintained only , not sealed ( always older floors) . Impregnators are breathable to a degree, but on older floors with issues and no dpm we steer clear.

I am not experienced enough on this to comment on the install, sorry just concerned if there was moisture ,where it was going to end up

Hi, sorry, not a tiler ( although I seem to have the banner on here) restored many and specified many new floor that will require to breath or for clean ups and then maintained only , not sealed ( always older floors) . Impregnators are breathable to a degree, but on older floors with issues and no dpm we steer clear.

I am not experienced enough on this to comment on the install, sorry just concerned if there was moisture ,where it was going to end up