Pva Versus Primers | Always Use A Primer When Tiling, And Not Pva
S
sWe
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
Many/most modern cement based adhesives are "primer free" to some extent. That means they don't require normally encountered surfaces, such as plasterboard or concrete, to be primed, BUT, there are almost always exceptions. The obvious ones are gypsum/anhydrite surfaces, (partly for the reaction risk, partly because they're very absorbant) and other surfaces which may react in some way when in contact with cement based materials.
Very absorbant or very non-absorbant surfaces may need to be primed.
Very absorbant surfaces can include certain light weight concretes and LECA, because otherwise they'll absorb too much moisture from the adhesive, thus preventing it from curing properly.
Very non-absorbant surfaces include already tiled surfaces, plastics, and metals, becuase the adhesive may not bond properly to them otherwise.
Always check the manufacturer instructions on wether or not an adhesive is suitable for the surface you intend to tile, and if your specific surface needs priming or not when using your chosen adhesive. It should say so on the bag. If it doesn't, don't risk it.
Many/most modern cement based adhesives are "primer free" to some extent. That means they don't require normally encountered surfaces, such as plasterboard or concrete, to be primed, BUT, there are almost always exceptions. The obvious ones are gypsum/anhydrite surfaces, (partly for the reaction risk, partly because they're very absorbant) and other surfaces which may react in some way when in contact with cement based materials.
Very absorbant or very non-absorbant surfaces may need to be primed.
Very absorbant surfaces can include certain light weight concretes and LECA, because otherwise they'll absorb too much moisture from the adhesive, thus preventing it from curing properly.
Very non-absorbant surfaces include already tiled surfaces, plastics, and metals, becuase the adhesive may not bond properly to them otherwise.
Always check the manufacturer instructions on wether or not an adhesive is suitable for the surface you intend to tile, and if your specific surface needs priming or not when using your chosen adhesive. It should say so on the bag. If it doesn't, don't risk it.
Last edited by a moderator:
G
Gazzatile
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
Dave very good article hopefuly this will mean fewer jobs failing
Gazza
Dave very good article hopefuly this will mean fewer jobs failing
Gazza
H
handyrabbit
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
brilliant! saves me asking the question why!!
glad i've moved house - pva'd a wall in my bathroom b4 tiling it!!
was there for 3 years after but i wonder mmmm???!!!
brilliant! saves me asking the question why!!
glad i've moved house - pva'd a wall in my bathroom b4 tiling it!!
was there for 3 years after but i wonder mmmm???!!!
D
David - Tradetiler
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
Just in case anyone missed it, because of this thread, we now stock SBR (at a really good price too) :yes:
[DLMURL="http://www.tradetiler.com/acatalog/siliconing_tiles.html#aSBR"]TradeTiler.Ltd Siliconing sealers/primers[/DLMURL]
Just in case anyone missed it, because of this thread, we now stock SBR (at a really good price too) :yes:
[DLMURL="http://www.tradetiler.com/acatalog/siliconing_tiles.html#aSBR"]TradeTiler.Ltd Siliconing sealers/primers[/DLMURL]
Last edited by a moderator:
P
pt44
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
So, have I understood correctly - that SBR is a proper primer? not a PVA.
Also - from the small plastering knowledge and mortar knowledge that I have. I would normal pva seal a brick wall, with 1:4 pva mix. Let it dry, then redo it, with a 1:1 pva mix, and either plaster over it or render it with mortar, while the second mix is still tacky.
Can't beat PVA for plastering/rendering & patching in mortar or concrete (from my experience)
However, really interesting about why not to use it for Tiling.
Paul
So, have I understood correctly - that SBR is a proper primer? not a PVA.
Also - from the small plastering knowledge and mortar knowledge that I have. I would normal pva seal a brick wall, with 1:4 pva mix. Let it dry, then redo it, with a 1:1 pva mix, and either plaster over it or render it with mortar, while the second mix is still tacky.
Can't beat PVA for plastering/rendering & patching in mortar or concrete (from my experience)
However, really interesting about why not to use it for Tiling.
Paul
W
White Room
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
I don't use pva if I'm rendering a wall, I will dampen the brick wall with water then render but if has any variation of finishs on the wall then sbr or cement slurry.
PVA for plastering though
I don't use pva if I'm rendering a wall, I will dampen the brick wall with water then render but if has any variation of finishs on the wall then sbr or cement slurry.
PVA for plastering though
G
GazTech
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
DESCRIPTION
A water-based dispersion of a styrene-butadiene copolymer with a
wide variety of uses in the construction industry, particularly as an
admixture and bonding agent for cement and concrete applications.
Once cured, the polymer is water and frost resistant.
January 2005
Cl/SfB
Yt4
APPLICATIONS & PERFORMANCE
BAL BOND SBR
USE & SERVICE CONDITIONS
BAL BOND SBR can be used as a slurry coat when mixed with hydraulic cement or gypsum plaster; as a multi-purpose admixture for
cement:sand mortars, concrete and gypsum plaster; as a brush applied primer, sealer or dustproofer.
STANDARDS
The high quality of this product is maintained through a stringent internal
quality assurance system conforming to BS EN ISO 9002 with regular
external quality assessments by independent authorities such as BSI.
DESCRIPTION
A water-based dispersion of a styrene-butadiene copolymer with a
wide variety of uses in the construction industry, particularly as an
admixture and bonding agent for cement and concrete applications.
Once cured, the polymer is water and frost resistant.
January 2005
Cl/SfB
Yt4
APPLICATIONS & PERFORMANCE
BAL BOND SBR
USE & SERVICE CONDITIONS
BAL BOND SBR can be used as a slurry coat when mixed with hydraulic cement or gypsum plaster; as a multi-purpose admixture for
cement:sand mortars, concrete and gypsum plaster; as a brush applied primer, sealer or dustproofer.
STANDARDS
The high quality of this product is maintained through a stringent internal
quality assurance system conforming to BS EN ISO 9002 with regular
external quality assessments by independent authorities such as BSI.
P
pt44
Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......
Waterproof PVA?
Ok, so normal PVA is no good, as it goes back to being glue if you add water, once it has dried. However, Waterproof PVA? What is it. Surely, the fact that it is waterproof means that it must have something in it - that stops it doing that. i.e. it must form a stable substance, that is not affected by water.
That then surely, is the same as SBR or a primer?
Or is it? Anyone?
Paul
Waterproof PVA?
Ok, so normal PVA is no good, as it goes back to being glue if you add water, once it has dried. However, Waterproof PVA? What is it. Surely, the fact that it is waterproof means that it must have something in it - that stops it doing that. i.e. it must form a stable substance, that is not affected by water.
That then surely, is the same as SBR or a primer?
Or is it? Anyone?
Paul
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