Pva Versus Primers | Always Use A Primer When Tiling, And Not Pva

[Ajax123]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Blimey, i am the untrained but have used PVA at home and wont use again - i do have a litre of tilers primer unopened which i thought was just rebranded pva !!

Now I have a garage floor to sort out it has never been treated painted sealed primed PVA'd ect. and went out and bought a big tub of pva to put on to "seal?" it whilst i decide weather to use an epoxy type paint or standard garage floor paint - one manufacturer of the epoxy says not to pva and now i can see why ! ....but would Palace tilers primer (the 1l unopened bottle) be a suitable product to put down as a temp fix and then paint at a later date?

Sorry if painting is offtopic on a tiling forum

Epoxy paint over PVA not really anything to do with the issues about PVA although your paint would still peel off. This is because epoxys depend on mechanical key and as such need to achieve a certain level of penetration into the substrate so that they can grab onto it. If you need to rpime the substrate you should use a penetrating epoxy primer. This will penetrate inot the surface and provide "grab" but as it has penetrated it will also have a contoured surface following the conours of the concrete thus providing a surface that the paint can mechanically bond to.

 

[spooney55]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Great advise to me as a newcomer to tiling.
much better to spend a few quid more doing the job right, than getting a bad name later, costing time and money putting it right.

 

[negsy26]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

what about webber pr370 ? thats described as - a synthetic water based pva concentrate for sealing and primming building substrates. is it ok to use that prior to tiling then ? !! im confused !!! lol

 

[nudge]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

My gosh - what an exhaustive read from start to finish! that was - :dizzy2:
i can hardly get anyone over here to even use a primer/sealer let alone discuss which type is best! - but it would seem to an outsider that there is a bit of confusion in terminology going on & some untrained adhesive reps & others might some times unwittingly profligate the problem.

I believe we should seal a substrate which is thirsty so that the adhesive cures proberly or we should prime a substrate that is suspect or hard to stick to and if neither of these is the case don't bother - the adhesive is tested without and is more than capable of bonding to most common surfaces.

Primer G diluted 4-1 for sealing
Primer S water resistant primer
Mapeprim 2 part water based epoxy for problems

p.s. sometimes it isn't a matter of can we bond to a particular substrate - but should we -i.e. bitumen - chip board etc. we stick to them but they don't stay stuck to themselves and delaminate.

 

[christine]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Hi,
So if you already have coated the rendering with PVA how do you get it off so you can apply primer? I never knew tiling was so complicated!
Thanks a lot Christine

 

[White Room]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

What made you apply pva to render, did you thin it out or put it on neat

 

[christine]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

What made you apply pva to render, did you thin it out or put it on neat

we used 4 parts water to 1 part unibond

 

[White Room]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Quite thin so may have soaked in, could (in the shower area) apply hot water and using a scrubbing brush on the surface and clean water to remove any residue

 

[christine]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Quite thin so may have soaked in, could (in the shower area) apply hot water and using a scrubbing brush on the surface and clean water to remove any residue

do we then prime it when dry? Do we just prime the other walls on top of the unibond or will that then be a case of the adhesive just sticking to the primer which is sticking to the unibond! Never knew tiling was so complicated perhaps someone should introduce an "idiots guide" for people like me!

How do we prepare the plywood floor ? thanks a lot

 

[White Room]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Should have no need to prime render unless it may be dusty, leave the other walls as the unibond you put on was quite thin.
i take it that the ply is already down, normally the ply would be primed uderneath where it sit on the floor boards and edges to stop any moisture ingress, check the information on the adhesive bag wether it needs priming or not on the surface your going to tile

 

[nealgrove]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

 

[Gazzer]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

How did you apply the unibond ?

 

[Rainbow]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Hi
I have a recently plastered en-suite which has a 50/50 emulsion primer on it.
I want to tile the whole room and am going to use BAL Rapidset adhesive - do I still need to use a primer such as BAL primer??
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks

 

[nudge]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

I am tileing over old ceramic tiles,was told to unibond pva over old ones first,Wrong??????

yep! - just wash the old tiles down propery & use something that will bond direct to the. i like Mapei Kerabond plus/isolastic50 - been using & recomending it now for 15 years without 1 single problem - easy!

 

[doug boardley]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Hi
I have a recently plastered en-suite which has a 50/50 emulsion primer on it.
I want to tile the whole room and am going to use BAL Rapidset adhesive - do I still need to use a primer such as BAL primer??
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks

yes Rainbow, especially if it's a gypsum type plaster

 

[Rainbow]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

yes Rainbow, especially if it's a gypsum type plaster

Hi Doug
No idea if it's Gypsum based but will Prime it with BAL anyway...
Thanks for the advice.
:8:

 

[coxy]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

just new to this was gonna use pva thanks for the advice:8:

 

[Stephen@Weber]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

I think it depends entirely on the surface you're sticking to and what you're sticking to it. There must be a reason that every single manufacturer says that PVA isn't suitable, I mean I'm sure they're not sitting round a table (In an evil lab) saying lets lie to all the tilers out there. They all say the same reasons as well, reactivates with water, sits on the surface, not strong enough.

I mean epoxy primer seems to sit on the surface but defo gives a strong enough bond, perhaps we should just believe all the people in the industry, tile manufacturers, adhesive manufacturers, tilers, chemists and except that tiling needs some specialist products.

You never know these chemists could devise products that allow tiling in every room of the house rather than just solid floors and walls.

 

[mikethetile]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

your right in what you say penkhull

the problem is misinformation

i havent been into a diy shed to read the tubs of addy for a while so they may have changed it

but the instructions for unibond addy tell you to prime plaster with their pva product:yikes:

tiling is traditionaly part of the plastering trade and city and guilds plasterers learnt tiling

and a lot of plasterers use pva as some kind of cure all magic potion

even advising their customers to seal the new plaster before painting ,which is correct

but when the customers asks what to use they say dilute some pva it will stick the paint to the wall:yikes:

one job i looked at recently everything got confused and she mixed the pva through the paint:yikes::yikes:

 

[guil.rocha]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

thats good advice, i just bought some pva for a job on monday where i ply the floor. I guess i need to get some primer instead. Whats the best priced primer out there? I'm new to the trade and so far only used Nicobond for everything.

 

[DHTiling]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

For ply you want SBR..

 

[guil.rocha]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

thanks again Dave!

 

[Gazzer]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Good SBR [DLMURL="http://www.tradetiler.com/acatalog/siliconing_tiles.html"]Here[/DLMURL]

 

[doug boardley]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-adhesive-grout-substrate-preperation/2511-p-v-versus-primers.html

 

[doug boardley]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

feel free to get your boss to log on and show him this, it's all there, then watch him rub his chin and go oooh and aaah
http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-adhesive-grout-substrate-preperation/2511-p-v-versus-primers.html