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charlie1
One thing i would like to know is when working on larger scales, how do you assemble a team / squad of tilers and delicate there duties. Also how you would go about setting out bays and which order to do first.
P
Peter
Got my Level 2 NVQ through tech. Stayed on to do my level 3 but the company I was with were doing work abroad most weeks so missed more than I was going to. Wish I had finished it though.
Don't believe it has any bearing on how good a tiler you are, and if you seen some of the half wits in my tech class that passed it then you'd understand why. :lol:
Don't believe it has any bearing on how good a tiler you are, and if you seen some of the half wits in my tech class that passed it then you'd understand why. :lol:
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The D
There is more to this that meets the eye take Jonnyc or Dave How if they want your qualification how do you propose they prove there competence in each element of each unit ??
C
charlie1
Not sure if I've mentioned this earlier in thread but tiler i have worked with on a few occasions has an attitude of his work is acceptable and good enough, he wonders why i stress over lippage of half a mm, he would just leave that and say why worry, his attitude can infuriate me at times!! When we work together, he will discuss anything but work where i am the opposite, when he is tiling he is just switched off on auto pilot! He is fully qualified in tiling, brick laying and plastering and very experienced. Maybe as i have said earlier, when qualified you simply assume you are good enough because the piece of paper said so? Not saying everyone is like that but its an interesting point! One reason i got in to tiling is because i know what outstanding tiling looks like, i have also saw a severe lack of it in this country in comparison to others like Germany!
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The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
Mark that is a tough one to explain with just words, Ed and I had this conversation last week. I ran a team of tilers for years and the faces changed on a weekly basis, only the best of the best would last on those jobs, the money was good but the work was hard.
I had a system on big floors where I legged out the floor so each tiler did not need to think about squares, tapes, or anything else, they just tiled for 12 hours.
Without drawing I can only try to explain, my screeders would receive 25ton of readymix 4:1 sand and cement each morning at 6.30am my team arrived at 8.00am by which time we would have 80/90m2 of screed laid. As the rest of the team sorted out water, tiles, etc I would start to form the 3linm bays, using pre-formed metal staffs with the tile joints sawed in to them.
As I got the first 3mlin bay ready the first tiler would jump in with his walking boards and start fixing, when I had the second bay set up the next guy started, when I had finished legging out I would jump in the last bay. We used to average 150/200m2 per day, depending on the job. Good days, hard work, good money.
D
DHTiling
Full on practicle tests .. but to tell the truth , a piece of paper means diddly to me unless one day the trade is fully licensed and i then will make sure i am papered to the hilt with what is required... but i will probs be in a coffin before that happens in this trade... till then the courses will keep churning them out.
gamma38
TF
Some good reading on this thread. Personally i'm a C&G time served pipefitter welder (industrial plumber if anyone is not sure). 5 years at St Albans and for me those pieces of paper don't really mean that much and never really did. Don't get me wrong i have always had work so i guess they meant something at the time, but job wise i never really enjoyed doing it, which is when i started getting into tiling. To start with i was one of those just stick em up guys. Now some 16 odd years later and working with some good tilers over the years i have learnt so much, and continue to do so. Tiling is more than just a job nowadays, i enjoy what i do which is reflected in my work and my work ethic i think. I think tiling as a trade has to be a little more than a piece of paper as it is a job that almost demands a certain amount of pride. Not taking anything away from any of you guys here that have the qualifications as there is no downside to a piece of paper.
C
charlie1
Mark that is a tough one to explain with just words, Ed and I had this conversation last week. I ran a team of tilers for years and the faces changed on a weekly basis, only the best of the best would last on those jobs, the money was good but the work was hard.
I had a system on big floors where I legged out the floor so each tiler did not need to think about squares, tapes, or anything else, they just tiled for 12 hours.
Without drawing I can only try to explain, my screeders would receive 25ton of readymix 4:1 sand and cement each morning at 6.30am my team arrived at 8.00am by which time we would have 80/90m2 of screed laid. As the rest of the team sorted out water, tiles, etc I would start to form the 3linm bays, using pre-formed metal staffs with the tile joints sawed in to them.
As I got the first 3mlin bay ready the first tiler would jump in with his walking boards and start fixing, when I had the second bay set up the next guy started, when I had finished legging out I would jump in the last bay. We used to average 150/200m2 per day, depending on the job. Good days, hard work, good money.
nice one Phil! ( i don't want to hijack this thread) but, i understand your methods using sand cement fixing but with current methods, on an uneven substrate, how could you ensure that each tiler in each bay is following the same plane or height? A slightly different angle on trowling could have a mil or 2 difference in bed thickness! ... Fascinating Post Phil!!
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The D
Ok now we are talking first we need the elements that makeup each unit. Can some one get on with writing them up Tanks. Then we will need some assessors and some guidelines to measure against
Take in to consideration the amount of materials that will be needed and then removed and disposed of
Then think about the time it will take to physically complete each and every unit. (This will all have to be simulated evidence as a lot of it is not day to day tiling for most tilers.) This qualification will be the best qual you can get if you have 2 years spare and about £6000.00
J
jonnyc
Mark that is a tough one to explain with just words, Ed and I had this conversation last week. I ran a team of tilers for years and the faces changed on a weekly basis, only the best of the best would last on those jobs, the money was good but the work was hard.
I had a system on big floors where I legged out the floor so each tiler did not need to think about squares, tapes, or anything else, they just tiled for 12 hours.
Without drawing I can only try to explain, my screeders would receive 25ton of readymix 4:1 sand and cement each morning at 6.30am my team arrived at 8.00am by which time we would have 80/90m2 of screed laid. As the rest of the team sorted out water, tiles, etc I would start to form the 3linm bays, using pre-formed metal staffs with the tile joints sawed in to them.
As I got the first 3mlin bay ready the first tiler would jump in with his walking boards and start fixing, when I had the second bay set up the next guy started, when I had finished legging out I would jump in the last bay. We used to average 150/200m2 per day, depending on the job. Good days, hard work, good money.
Phil this is a great insight of what the tiling profession was all about.
it would seem to me that at some point this changed with the introduction of tile adhesive that must have evolved from having screeds to level outbsubfloors that only needed a thin bed material.
this would automatically dilute the skill of the tiler hence what we have today
T
The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
Mark this is another topic Ed and I talked about, I have a fool-proof way of using SLC, that I would make sure was done before any tiling commenced. And I always make sure everyone trowels with the same notch, in the same way.
T
The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
Mark that is a tough one to explain with just words, Ed and I had this conversation last week. I ran a team of tilers for years and the faces changed on a weekly basis, only the best of the best would last on those jobs, the money was good but the work was hard.
I had a system on big floors where I legged out the floor so each tiler did not need to think about squares, tapes, or anything else, they just tiled for 12 hours.
Without drawing I can only try to explain, my screeders would receive 25ton of readymix 4:1 sand and cement each morning at 6.30am my team arrived at 8.00am by which time we would have 80/90m2 of screed laid. As the rest of the team sorted out water, tiles, etc I would start to form the 3linm bays, using pre-formed metal staffs with the tile joints sawed in to them.
As I got the first 3mlin bay ready the first tiler would jump in with his walking boards and start fixing, when I had the second bay set up the next guy started, when I had finished legging out I would jump in the last bay. We used to average 150/200m2 per day, depending on the job. Good days, hard work, good money.
Phil this is a great insight of what the tiling profession was all about.
it would seem to me that at some point this changed with the introduction of tile adhesive that must have evolved from having screeds to level outbsubfloors that only needed a thin bed material.
this would automatically dilute the skill of the tiler hence what we have today
Sorry Jonny,I missed your post, just found it, but these sand and cement jobs were not that long ago, but as I said to Mark if the floor is prepared for adhesive fixing, then the legging out method still works.
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charlie1
Sorry Jonny,I missed your post, just found it, but these sand and cement jobs were not that long ago, but as I said to Mark if the floor is prepared for adhesive fixing, then the legging out method still works.
sounds like you had a lot of control over a lot of very good fixers who where prepared to do as you asked rather than a bunch of egotistical know it alls....good team!! I hate to blatantly ask phil but i will call one day and hopefully you can explain in more detail your fool proof self levelling method!!!
T
The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
T
The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
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The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
Ed this is what we talked about the other day. You are a dab hand at this game mate.
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The D
Dose a qualification make you a better tiler NO but if you went to an accountant you would expect them to have some form of qualification in that area dose that qual mean they are the best in the world no it is just something to say they can do the job you want them to do without sitting them down and giving them some long division to prove themselves.
We should all have a qualification it would give the trade a bit of respect.
I must admit I am a bit irritated when I here my qualifications mocked and called” lame” “not worth the paper it was written on” “a monkey could get one” “Biggest load of bullfrogs going” It took a lot for me to get and I am proud of the fact I took the time and put the effort in to get them. I know the system is imperfect and I know there have been firms that have exploited loop holes and handed out quals to people that did not deserve it and this has devalued the qual but at the end of the day it is not a thing to say you are the best it is just something to say you can do the job. Something all of us that can do the job should have at our respective levels and they should be easy for us to obtain it is what we do. If you want a qual that only the best of the best can get that is all well and good but we need a level 1 as well.
We should all have a qualification it would give the trade a bit of respect.
I must admit I am a bit irritated when I here my qualifications mocked and called” lame” “not worth the paper it was written on” “a monkey could get one” “Biggest load of bullfrogs going” It took a lot for me to get and I am proud of the fact I took the time and put the effort in to get them. I know the system is imperfect and I know there have been firms that have exploited loop holes and handed out quals to people that did not deserve it and this has devalued the qual but at the end of the day it is not a thing to say you are the best it is just something to say you can do the job. Something all of us that can do the job should have at our respective levels and they should be easy for us to obtain it is what we do. If you want a qual that only the best of the best can get that is all well and good but we need a level 1 as well.
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The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP
Amen to that Dean, well put.
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Pebbs
Deano, you hit the nail on the head about some companies abusing the system and jumping straight through the loopholes, so on paper their men look competent and know what they are doing. I know this is happening, and has been happening for some time, and it undermines the whole system. So my response is , qualifications are good, when you know there is a rigid system in place, the fact is at the moment the system has been and will continue to be abused. But then I have to look at some people who can bearly write their name, and bearly read, and know that they will never pass any kind of qualification, and where does that leave them? I have spent many hours with some of my lads, getting them geared up to take a basic h & s test for their cards. They are not stupid or backward, they can do their work fantastically, but have difficulty in literacy skills. This is what worries me, regulate this trade so they have to sit these exams, and we are in danger of isolating good people.
I would not compare this trade with that of an accountant, that is an academic qualification, this trade is not, its about being that best at your craft, and the work you produce speaks more than any piece of paper.
Lynn
I would not compare this trade with that of an accountant, that is an academic qualification, this trade is not, its about being that best at your craft, and the work you produce speaks more than any piece of paper.
Lynn
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The D
Lyn I am dyslexic I left school with nothing I could not read or write so I know where you are coming from but the lads that work for you have as much right to the qals as anybody the fact they are not academic is irrelevant that is why the NVQ was invented it is for this type of person to give them a way of being qualified vocation: somebody's job: somebody's work, job, or profession, especially a type of work demanding special commitment.
The NVQ is not an elite qual it is for all in the trade all of your lads can have one and the ones that have problems with the academic side of things will get help
Did my Apprenticeship in the early 70s lost my papers to old in the tooth to start doing NVQ,s just do domestic and refurbs (pays better than site work) I think not having papers does not lessen you as a tradesman years of experience count for a lot,I know of a couple of tilers who have all there NVQ,s and they have only been tiling a couple of years I cant believe how little they know
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