Stains on white limestone floor

[Topshop]

I don't think that any amount of sealer would have stopped this from happening when a barrier was holding moisture to the stone for months like that. The stone will not dry out fully for many more months with the sealer on it which is now holding the moisture in. You need a stone refinisher to open the stone back up. It is hard to say how deep the problem sank into the stone until it is opened up. It may be possible that just a brown cleaner pad on a swing machine will remove it because limestone is actually kind of dense.

 

[jay]

I don't think that any amount of sealer would have stopped this from happening when a barrier was holding moisture to the stone for months like that. The stone will not dry out fully for many more months with the sealer on it which is now holding the moisture in. You need a stone refinisher to open the stone back up. It is hard to say how deep the problem sank into the stone until it is opened up. It may be possible that just a brown cleaner pad on a swing machine will remove it because limestone is actually kind of dense.

Agree but if the person who covered it finds out it wasn't fully sealed (two coats) then it sort of leaves an opening for a way out

 

[jonnyc]

dont agree with this one coat/two coat/thee coat mularchay.
stone fixing is not a science .
every stone demands respect from the installer.
from my experience over the last 20 years , one should never assume that you can generalise about how to fix/grout and seal any particular limestone.

i dont think many can remember or even know how stone was sealed this long ago.

 

[jay]

dont agree with this one coat/two coat/thee coat mularchay.
stone fixing is not a science .
every stone demands respect from the installer.
from my experience over the last 20 years , one should never assume that you can generalise about how to fix/grout and seal any particular limestone.

i dont think many can remember or even know how stone was sealed this long ago.

Yes all stone is different and take different attention but most sealers these days require 2 coat's in GENERAL to achieve a proper seal

 

[Pebbs]

I had a look at the photos, and to my eyes the stone has sweated. Underfloor heating and corex on the surface are not a good combination, the moisture rises upwards and then has no where to go. What I would recommend here is that the floor is stripped with a kleever and then grinded back and then re-honed. With the queries raised about the amount of sealer on the stone, Jonnyc is correct some stones soak up the sealer so you can go up to 3 coats, others will only need 1, so bear that in mind its not a rule, sealers can also darken up stone, some clients dont want that colour change.

Also I want to re-iterate something regarding the drying out of stone, it can in some cases take up to 3/4 months to dry out. I have a project that we completed 6 months ago and the stone Pietra Serena is only now ready to be sealed, luckily for us its internal walls. If you seal to soon the water gets trapped on the surface between the stone and the sealer. Always be absolutely 100% that the stone is at least 90% dry before applying any sealer.

Pebbs

 

[DHTiling]

Hence why I asked if it was dry.

It is obvious the floor has sweated. Now it is a case of rectifying it and topshop has provided the info.

 

[jay]

Might need to re word it then,
if a tiler doesnt seal stone to the manufactures instructions (of the sealer) and allows other trades on to the surface ,and lets say it gets dirty or stained as in this thread ,is there any chance that the tiler can walk away or can he be held joint responsible

not meaning to point the finger just asking the question

not having a go at Monkey 1 .

 

[Pebbs]

If the floor was signed of, by the site/contracts manager or whoever was in charge, then the responsibility for such mishaps as this lies purely with them. You must always get your work signed off by whoever is in charge, because you all know other trades are....ANIMALS! and do not care about the countless hours you may have put into making a masterpiece or something along those lines.

My advice to all of you...not just the ones who do commercial work, but all of you that have to work alongside the animals...I mean other trades, get yourselves down to the printers and get some triplicate signing of sheets done. Forearmed is forewarned.

The amount of times I get call backs to go and inspect works that suddenly have developed defects...IE scratches, chunks missing from stones, black marks, you name it Ive seen it. I walk in flip open the folder, show them the signing of sheet, and then inform them that there is no problem rectifying the problem, but it will be extra works.

Signing of sheets are your insurance policies, and if things ever got nasty stand up in a court of law.

Here endeth the surmon.

Pebbs

 

[jay]

If the floor was signed of, by the site/contracts manager or whoever was in charge, then the responsibility for such mishaps as this lies purely with them. You must always get your work signed off by whoever is in charge, because you all know other trades are....ANIMALS! and do not care about the countless hours you may have put into making a masterpiece or something along those lines.

My advice to all of you...not just the ones who do commercial work, but all of you that have to work alongside the animals...I mean other trades, get yourselves down to the printers and get some triplicate signing of sheets done. Forearmed is forewarned.



The amount of times I get call backs to go and inspect works that suddenly have developed defects...IE scratches, chunks missing from stones, black marks, you name it Ive seen it. I walk in flip open the folder, show them the signing of sheet, and then inform them that there is no problem rectifying the problem, but it will be extra works.

Signing of sheets are your insurance policies, and if things ever got nasty stand up in a court of law.

Here endeth the surmon.

Pebbs

Darn good advice

 

[jonnyc]

just picked this up again.
some good advice from some old sages i think.
re this point about sealing twice.
one does not always have the chance to put last seal on till end of job.
quite often with kitchen dates booked with these expensive kitchen companies, if you miss the date you wont get them for months again.
so we often have to lay floor , give few days to let stone dry enough to apply stainsop w or similar water based .
then cover with good grade building paper.
At this point as pebbs rightly says, get it signed off or as i always do i put the option of water based seal at first visit and then last seal after in your quote pointing out that the bulider is solely responsible for keeping the floor in the perfect condition i left it in.
when you water base seal,most of the time the stone picture frames and will need to be cleaned with wexa or similar to get rid of it before last seal.
i charge for this service and drying off with blower. its all in the quote so the contractor has choice of saving time and not delaying kitchen but will cost him for mre to clean and sort out any damge caused or can wait the time i have specified for particular stone to dry and seal with main sealer ie stainstop or similar.
then you are covered . I have a template spec which is a whole page on site preparation , which gets adjusted to suit every stone.
and how they can vary.
pietra serena for instance as noted above is one for sure.
moleanos used to be a real problem years ago until the adhesive manufacturers sorted out their products to suit these type of stones.
used to spend more time cleaning the stone than laying it years ago when people were recommending x7 white and ad 90 or similar.
huge staining problems .
its got to be rapid for hydration and stop migration.

 

[stone tiler]

Thanks for all the replies.
I think between us all we've worked out a plan now then.
Get a re-finishing company in to look at the stone and see if there is anything they can do by removing the sealer,cleaning or re-honing the stone. And then its a case of fingers crossed the staining isn't too deep!
As I said, I'm 99% sure it won't be kicked back to me. Client and contractor have both agreed I left it finished and complete to the best I could. I know its stupid in todays world, but if the client is happy and signs it off/pays then I'm happy to take them at their word. I do think the sign off sheets are a good idea tho. Am going to look into getting some of them done for sure! (just incase)
Jonny is it OK to still give you a call? Bout 10.30/11 OK?

 

[jonnyc]

hope it goes ok.
just luck that Marble Shine the company that fixed my floor happen to be so close to you.
Get them to do a test and make sure client is aware that it will change look of floor and this is not your problem you are just trying to help them out.
I would actually get them to call marble shine.
dont you start paying for any tests.

good luck

 

[WorcesterTile]

Hi, I've spoken to one of our suppliers who suggests using Lithofin Power Clean with a white pad - test area first of course, but if we can help anymore, let me know.

 

[stone tiler]

Thanks guys.
All info passed on to client and works foreman. Let them sort it out between them.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

i would a make a poltis to see if this would work. get a cotainer add water and bleach 50 50. add washing powder mix untill mily now add casting plaster mix untill paste now spread on tile leave to dry then clean off. the bleach and water washing powder should soak in to the tile. then as the casting plaster drys the heat will draw the staining out .this works 60% of the time depending on the stain worth a try.wash floor plenty of clean water.