The dreaded 6mm plywood.

[trevortine]

Hi all, been really busy recently so not been on here posting for a while but have had the occasional look in and amazed at how big the forum has got! Anyway onto the subject, went to price a job last night, 112m2 of 600x600 polished porcelain. Went in the front door and to my horror the floor has already been sheeted entirely with 6mm plywood and ring shank nails! The way the ply has been laid for a start is ridiculous, no bonding (ie all four corners meet) and just the rough look of it how its been laid, tight gaps ,huge gaps, strips to infill areas. Anyway started to explain to customer how wrong this was on every level ie, thickness, not been primed on backs and edges, likelyhood of warping , nails as oppose to screws and then the option of removing and going down the cement board option. At this point he called through the builder who had prepped the floor and you guessed it, "ive been doing it that way for years and theres nothing wrong with it", "ive never heard of priming the backs and sides and whats the point". Its a shame because it would have been a good job but with the tiles costing £6000 would you want to risk it? I certainly wont but can guarantee someone will come in and do it. To be fair the owner did seem to listen to what i had to say but we shall wait and see!

 

[andy-p]

No way would i risk that , any comebacks and the builder will simply blame the tiler, there are some jobs you just have to walk away from...

 

[DHTiling]

I would have asked the builder if he was qualified to advise on tiling.. if so why isn't he doing it.. I hate know it all builders..

 

[trevortine]

Apparently he found the size of the job and area a bit daunting!! Didnt stop him trying to prepare it though eh!

 

[foggy34]

wise move trevortine shame tho to have to turn it down,hopefully they ll see sense and come back to you to prep properly and tile.fingers crossed

 

[Jasmine Tiling]

I wouldnt get involed in this job, builders always make tilers out to be drama queens but when it goes wrong finger will point to tiler..I walked away from a job after customer had a conservatory built and built his own floor out off 2x4 ceiling joists and chipboard flooring with mega deflection. I bet someone will have a go

 

[Ian]

'I've been doing it that way for years', my favourite builder quote of all time!!!!

 

[DHTiling]

'I've been doing it that way for years', my favourite builder quote of all time!!!!

And the "i have never been called back "... doesn't make it right does it..

 

[White Room]

You can only advise and hope they listen Travortine, leave your card there just in case..

 

[Lodger]

Saying that, I fitted a new bathroom last month. It was to be tiled floor to celling and including the floor. The bathroom floor was already tiled with 300x300 marble, which I had to rip out. I was struggling to remove the tiles, even with my little kango and tile lifting chisel. Eventually I managed to remove part of the 3 tiles from the threshold and saw that there was 3mm ply screwed to the floor at random. The customer saw me struggling and said that, "Those tiles have been down for 12 years, you struggling to get them off?" The only way I could take them off was to, get a strong spade and lift off the ply.
I was thinking to myself that I am gona have to explain to this bloke that, ply is not a good enough substrate and we should use a tile backer board.................

 

[grumpygrouter]

Saying that, I fitted a new bathroom last month. It was to be tiled floor to celling and including the floor. The bathroom floor was already tiled with 300x300 marble, which I had to rip out. I was struggling to remove the tiles, even with my little kango and tile lifting chisel. Eventually I managed to remove part of the 3 tiles from the threshold and saw that there was 3mm ply screwed to the floor at random. The customer saw me struggling and said that, "Those tiles have been down for 12 years, you struggling to get them off?" The only way I could take them off was to, get a strong spade and lift off the ply.
I was thinking to myself that I am gona have to explain to this bloke that, ply is not a good enough substrate and we should use a tile backer board.................

Maybe the floor was very solid and that the bathroom didn't get a lot of use? There will always be cases where thin ply has been used and it has proved ok, but on the whole, it just isn't suitable and the potential for failure is very high. My first job I did after I did my training was my own kitchen floor....onto 9mm ply with Ardex 7001. Been down for 4 years and not a crack in sight! Wouldn't advise it to a customer now though as I now know better, and what the potential problems are.

 

[One Day]

I would NEVER tile onto 6mm ply for a paid job - EVER.
BUT.....

My parents asked me to tile their kitchen floor four years ago - old t&g boards with a little deflection.
Dad used 6mm ply and ring shanks! He insisted it would be fine and as he's an old fart I did it.
Topped up with 20mm screws about every 12" for my own sanity and tiled with BAL RSF.
Think they were Topps' Zamora 60x30 porcelain. Grouted using Ultracolor plus.
I expected this to fail inside 12 months yet it is fine still.

Go figure....!

 

[Thatch]

Easiest way......prep the substrate yourself!! If the customer has already had the prep done and it's not satisfactory then there is no way I will tile on it!!

 

[Lodger]

Easiest way......prep the substrate yourself!! If the customer has already had the prep done and it's not satisfactory then there is no way I will tile on it!!

Why wouldn't you tile on a peer-prepared floor? If the customer is insane enough to prep his floor, using 6mm ply, which is not a suitable substrate for the floor as we know it. Why not just explain the problems that may occur and have it signed by the customer to back you up if any problems ever arise with the floor. That way you can say, "I told you so" and charge to rip out the floor and do it right.

 

[doug boardley]

Why wouldn't you tile on a peer-prepared floor? If the customer is insane enough to prep his floor, using 6mm ply, which is not a suitable substrate for the floor as we know it. Why not just explain the problems that may occur and have it signed by the customer to back you up if any problems ever arise with the floor. That way you can say, "I told you so" and charge to rip out the floor and do it right.

,,,,because a waiver isn't worth the paper it's written on legally, if you've knowingly tiled onto a sub-standard substrate you're liable!