Tiling Board

[John K]

Good Morning, I live in a 1930's Bungalow and I am getting my Kitchen and Bathroom floors Tiled. It is a bit more expensive than I thought and my Contractor is now saying I need a Hardie Tile Backer Board to go down on top of existing Floor Boards. Why do I need a Tile backer Board as it is a bit pricey?

Many Thanks John K

 

[prceramics]

because you cant tile directly over floorboards because your tiles will crack due to the expansion in wood. It might seem a bit pricey now but would be very pricey to put right if not done properly in the first place.

 

[Brian the Tile]

you dont need to use hardie backer boards, you can use ply ,make sure it is of good quality and no less than ten mill in thickness then make sure it is screwed down evey four inch square and prime the boards before tiling (do not use PVA as your primer)

 

[AliGage]

you dont need to use hardie backer boards, you can use ply ,make sure it is of good quality and no less than ten mill in thickness then make sure it is screwed down evey four inch square and prime the boards before tiling (do not use PVA as your primer)

10mm ply??? Eh???????????

 

[Brian the Tile]

10mm ply??? Eh???????????

min 10mm ply do you have a problem with that, if so say what it is

 

[Brian the Tile]

and also before you make a comment take a look at how long i have been a tiler for then add one more year,expierience counts in this job i would say ,and i have plenty of it, no need for the hadibacker like i have told the op

 

[Bubblecraft]

Heard of 4mm, 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, 18mm, 22mm & 25mm ply. Never 10mm ply.

Hardi for me all the way. No hassle in priming boards, no worries about needing a Flexi adhesive (unless UFH) & guaranteed no movement in the substrate!

Don't get me wrong, you can use ply. Would be a minimum of 18mm for me (unless a high humidity area such as a wet room where 18mm marine will be required) but by the time you add the cost of an SBR, the hassle of priming the underside & edges you'd be better going the proper route

 

[bugs183]

Hardie boards are more stable than ply wood, as it can come in varying degrees of quality, and can delaminate.
So people opt for hardie or other methods.
But don't tile direct to the floor boards, yes it will cost you more money, but as PC says, do you want the risk of doing it twice?

 

[AliGage]

and also before you make a comment take a look at how long i have been a tiler for then add one more year,expierience counts in this job i would say ,and i have plenty of it, no need for the hadibacker like i have told the op

How does how long you've been tiling for come into it.
My comment refers to the "10mm" thickness you state. See point 1 below. But in anticipation to your next little outburst i've made note of a few other points:

1) Thicknesses of sheet material is measured to the nearest mm in conversion from imperial (yards, inches etc. 39 years of tiling you should be familiar). 9mm (3/8's of an inch). I don't believe there is such thing as 10mm ply. I'm open to be educated if you want to show me where it does exsist though.
2) Up until reading your post i was always 99% confident that BS states a minimum of 15mm (so the size would be 18mm or 3/4's of an inch in old money)
3) Overlaying with ply takes more prep than i tilebacker board would
4) a 6mm cement board or tile backer is less effected by tempreture changes than ply.
5) 6mm board as above would or is less likely to effect any transition to adjoining rooms.
and lastly, possibly the most important. It works out much cheaper to do it in hardiebacker than it does ply.

but..................I could be completely wrong i suppose.

 

[bugs183]

:boxing_smiley:

 

[Brian the Tile]

How does how long you've been tiling for come into it.
My comment refers to the "10mm" thickness you state. See point 1 below. But in anticipation to your next little outburst i've made note of a few other points:

1) Thicknesses of sheet material is measured to the nearest mm in conversion from imperial (yards, inches etc. 39 years of tiling you should be familiar). 9mm (3/8's of an inch). I don't believe there is such thing as 10mm ply. I'm open to be educated if you want to show me where it does exsist though.
2) Up until reading your post i was always 99% confident that BS states a minimum of 15mm (so the size would be 18mm or 3/4's of an inch in old money)
3) Overlaying with ply takes more prep than i tilebacker board would
4) a 6mm cement board or tile backer is less effected by tempreture changes than ply.
5) 6mm board as above would or is less likely to effect any transition to adjoining rooms.
and lastly, possibly the most important. It works out much cheaper to do it in hardiebacker than it does ply.

but..................I could be completely wrong i suppose.

right first of all like i said expirience counts ,(but not obviusly by you ) by your childish comments take a look back it says 39 + 1 wich makes forty years as a (time served six year apprentice) not a 6 weeks tiling course and then im a qualified tiler type of person ,the ten mill was just a example to the op,aswhats right and whats wrong,the problem im finding here tha there seems to be alot of know alls ( Know nothing) type of people,sit up and please take notice that i have been doing this job along time and i think i deserve abit more respect than you are giving,you mention 18mm ply but i am presuming the op doesnt want a front doorstep at his bathroom or kitchen door ,just recently i tiled a 4mtr bathroom floor told the customer to put min 10mm ply ,he put 6mm ply down 360 screws in it ,would you have tiled it? i guess not you woul have told him to take it up and put your fancy boards down i couldnt believe the ammount of screws i could not refuse to tile it after seeing it ,i will also tell you that that floor will still be down when you are no longer tiling with a gaurantee ,does that make me a cowboy tiler in your eyes probrably yes ,and that is where many years of expirience counts

 

[Bubblecraft]

 

[Brian the Tile]

i am not out for a tit to tat argument with you i am just trying to point the customer in the right direction if you dont like that then so be it but do not tell me i am in the wrong

 

[AliGage]

right first of all like i said expirience counts ,(but not obviusly by you ) by your childish comments take a look back it says 39 + 1 wich makes forty years as a (time served six year apprentice) not a 6 weeks tiling course and then im a qualified tiler type of person ,the ten mill was just a example to the op,aswhats right and whats wrong,the problem im finding here tha there seems to be alot of know alls ( Know nothing) type of people,sit up and please take notice that i have been doing this job along time and i think i deserve abit more respect than you are giving,you mention 18mm ply but i am presuming the op doesnt want a front doorstep at his bathroom or kitchen door ,just recently i tiled a 4mtr bathroom floor told the customer to put min 10mm ply ,he put 6mm ply down 360 screws in it ,would you have tiled it? i guess not you woul have told him to take it up and put your fancy boards down i couldnt believe the ammount of screws i could not refuse to tile it after seeing it ,i will also tell you that that floor will still be down when you are no longer tiling with a gaurantee ,does that make me a cowboy tiler in your eyes probrably yes ,and that is where many years of expirience counts

I'm sorry? None of my comments have been childish. You've gone nuts over what exactly here? My comment refered to the non-exsistance of 10mm ply. At no point in my first post did i insult you. I didn't even insinuate anything about tiling itself. You've read into my comment what you've wanted to read. Maybe it's you that needs to ask questions first perhaps?#

So you've been tiling for 40 years. Great. Personally i think the experience is only as good as the experience was. Would someone with half the time served therefore be half as good as you? I don't think it works that way. I've made no reference to the quality of work you do or your recommendations.

Lastly, you're kind of arguing most of my points for me in your last post. "front doorstep" comment. The 10mm was an example of what's right and what's wrong you say? So which one is your arguement supporting?

You demand respect because you say "you've been doing this a long time". Maybe you should calm yourself a little and give a little before demanding it in return. If you've had a bad day and want to vent, get a hobby.

 

[prceramics]

i would go for the hardie

 

[Brian the Tile]

respect my friend,have you ever heard of the comment dont try to show your grandma how to suck eggs,if not ask someone a little older with a bit off life gone past them,my forty years of tiling doesnt make me any better than anybody else but i have a lot of experience under my belt ,you dont seem to be able to grasp that for some strange reason ,and lastly i have only had a bad day because my van wouldnt start this morning not any other reason now jog on you do things your way and iwill continue to do what i know is right without trying to talk people into doing things they dont need to do ,and bye the way when your hardibackerand the likes become cheaper and have been tested over time as ply has i may have a re _think util then ply it is thankyou,old habits die hard,ive never had a problem so ill stick with it, just a differwnce of opinion eh.eh. eh eh .eh e. eh .eh

 

[Ajax123]

Calm down calm down..... And especially for you Brian the tile pwyllwch.....

Oh by the way 10mm ply is available here apparently 10.0mm Birch Plywood - BB WBP CPD

the British standard does say minimum 15mm ply

10mm ply may well work but for my part I always try to advise based on nationally recognised standards rather than what you might "get away" with.

in a kitchen or bathroom or utility room I would prefer hardibacker type board primarily due to the reduced prep time and the removal of issues such as mould and swell if it gets damp...

 

[Brian the Tile]

ajax i dont go off what i think i will get away with i do my job with great pride and would not talk somebody into something they did not need where it is not needed thankyou

 

[Bubblecraft]

Right, enough guys. The Op asked why does his tiler request Hardibacker boards. It has been answered. Lets call it quits at that!

 

[kilty55]

i would go the cement board route if it was me.....if its ply i use a 2 part and minimum bs thickness ply

 

[Brian the Tile]

and for the records Ajax what would you have recomended before theese boards came out,and bye the way i have tiled on floorboards with sand and cement but that doesnt mean nothing i suppose ,but i would just like you to know i do know what i am talking about its just that some people wont listen

 

[Ajax123]

ajax i dont go off what i think i will get away with i do my job with great pride and would not talk somebody into something they did not need where it is not needed thankyou

And if you are happy to Recomend 10mm ply that is entirely up to you..and if you have never had a problem that is good.... You seem to have become awfully defensive about it though... Most of the tilers I know on here or in person would prefer to stick with nationally recognised best practice standards laid out in the British standard codes of practice as this gives them some protection if things do go wrong.

 

[The D]

i am not out for a tit to tat argument with you i am just trying to point the customer in the right direction if you dont like that then so be it but do not tell me i am in the wrong

LOL you are in the wrong

 

[Bubblecraft]

Can we please keep the thread on topic. If you want, you can take this debate to the arms

 

[bugs183]

I'm sure Ajax would have recommended plywood before the introduction of these boards as this was all that was available.
These new boards are just a progression in manufacturing methods and technology and help give everyone a better chance at achieving a better longer lasting job.
I'd go with cement boards glued and screwed.

 

[Gazzer]

We used to do things a lot different , sand and cement for grout, white cement for walls, sand and cement fixing walls and floor, sawdust to clean floors with, cut tiles with chisel and hammer....I have moved with the times and I think its for the better.

 

[Ajax123]

and for the records Ajax what would you have recomended before theese boards came out,and bye the way i have tiled on floorboards with sand and cement but that doesnt mean nothing i suppose ,but i would just like you to know i do know what i am talking about its just that some people wont listen

I haven't questioned whether or not you know what you are talking about ......your advice simply sits outside of that which would be offered by other people and outside of the nationally accepted standards. I, like most on here am perectly willing and happy to listen.... like you though, I wont be dictated to and will make my decisions based on what I think right ... In this instance my own decision would differ from the one you would make ... I guess the problem that creates for the original poster is that he gets conflicting advice which is the bane of my life as I deal with anhydrite screeds....

 

[widler]

id go for hardibacker as well,i love it,not that ive never used ply,i have,but its just i find cement boards a lot lot easier to lay,cutting,handling ect, a bit more expensive maybe,but in the long run much better.
have a go brian you may love it, be easier on your back as well at your age

 

[Brian the Tile]

Right ok chaps i will leave this forum as there are to many people on here thinking they are right without any thought going into it there are also alot of people on here that have little or no idea that try to tell customers the right way to do things,im sorry but i have spent long enough on here ,i know there are some very good tilers on here also ,so i will try another forum which i think will be right for me to give out good advice without being ridiculed by people with little or no experience,i like a bit of banter ,but on here it seems like point scoring and seeing if you can get more posts on than the next person ,as for some on here i dont know when the tiles are actually fixed as so much time is spent on here,ill try and find a site where tilers are tilers not just talkers,i have mentioned no names on here so far but deanotile your pathetic comment has put the final nail in the coffin for me on this site i like a laugh and a joke but dont take the p... enough is enough i dont need to prove myself on here as some of you think you do

 

[Brian the Tile]

just like to say thanks to the nice guys on here and there are plenty of them out there giving good advice ,they tend to be time seved with a wealth of knowledge ,thanks all

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just like to say thanks to the nice guys on here and there are plenty of them out there giving good advice ,they tend to be time seved with a wealth of knowledge ,thanks all

 

[Ajax123]

It's as if you expect everyone to conform to your opinion Brian.... The simple truth of the matter is that they don't.... Whether they are aright or wrong or you are right or wrong makes no difference. People are entitled to their opinions surely....