Tiling job underway, advice needed

[zapbrannigan]

Hi,

A tiler has just started tiling my bathroom. The floor seems fine but on the walls he is dot and dabbing the tiles. The walls are boarded with hardie backer 500, the tiles are 60x30 porcelain and he is using cement based adhesive.

I was under the impression that dot and dabbing was a no go especially with tiles as large and heavy. I brought it up with the tiler who claims dot and dabbing is not ok on floors but fine on walls and this is how he always does walls and can assure me they are solid and won't go anywhere.

Can somebody give me some advice on what to do, is the tiler right or should I cut my losses with him and have the job restarted.

I have two small children and need to be sure that these tiles aren't going anywhere.

Thanks

zap

 

[Rich Midge]

Dot and dab is not an acceptable practice no matter what size tile or type of substrate. Yes the tiles shouldn't come away because of the sheer strength of bond but look at any basic how to guide or even read the bags and they'll all say the same, that is, solid bed especially in wet areas and back butter the tiles, especially large format. How do people who dot and dab go about grouting them? They must use bag after bag filling the joints because of all the voids. Who did the prep on the job?

 

[CJ]

Stop him now, and tell him to sling it.

Defo a No No.

 

[zapbrannigan]

I did the prep myself, I had to take the room back to stud work as it had wallpaper directly on plasterboard dot and dabbed on to lath and plaster. The original stud work wasn't perfectly plumb so the cement boards may be off but would this result in dotting and dabbing being the only option?
If the walls were so bad that it couldn't be notched and buttered wouldn't it be safer to take the boards off plane the stud work plumb rather than dotting and dabbing the tiles?

I placed timber in the walls to screw the vanity unit, toilet, towel rail, etc to. With the voids behind the tiles would this not make cracking the tiles an issue when screwing them in place. The tiler is adamant he's right and I'm having to pay him for his time and materials so far as things were threatening to escalate as he was starting to lose his temper and I obviously wan't to part amicably albeit disagreeing on the method of fixing the tile.

What should be my next move when looking for somebody to finish the job?

Thanks

Zap

 

[Rich Midge]

Why go to the expense of using hardie if you're then going to dot and dab tiles? Just don't get some people!

 

[afright]

There should be full coverage,dot & dab is bad practice tell him to do it right our leave.

 

[Hamster]

Dot and dab tiles? No way Jose!!! Solid bed only way. Get this guy to redo or break his neck and chuck him in a skip....with his tiles.

 

[salmonfisher]

This is what hapens to dot and dab tiles

 

[zapbrannigan]

Why go to the expense of using hardie if you're then going to dot and dab tiles? Just don't get some people!

That was my first thought when I saw the tiles. The 12mm Hardie backer is really difficult to cut and screw and then when I saw the tiles dot and dabbed it was a "what was the point moment".

I'll put some pics on in a bit to see what you think.

 

[orange peel]

I think there's a list of things wrong in the pics not just dotting

 

[Rich Midge]

Morning Zap, apologies I missed your earlier post re prep. Personally I'd be using extra noggins and battens on the studwork to achieve plumb. If its impossible to achieve level and plumb you should at the very least be aiming for flat. Most customers are happy to pay the extra to get the job done right. The bigger the tiles the more exact the prep needs to be. When fixing things like vanity units etc I push the plugs through the tiles into the wall behind to reduce the risk of cracking, if all you've got is voids this is going to be a real issue.

 

[zapbrannigan]

Links to pics showing the voids behind the tiles and how much adhesive is in contact with tile and wall. In one pic you can see straight down several rows to the toilet waste pipe.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2j1vtxe.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/166heh3.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/280tf1c.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/eh10fl.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/eh10fl.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/6nz4nq.jpg

One wall is done to the ceiling, one of the pic shows through the grout line where you can just see the backer board apart from a squeeze of one of the dabs. I placed a steel rule through a load of the grout lines and I can only see a 2mm difference at most across the wall from the face of the backer board to the face of the tile so surely the wall can't be that bad that it needed to be dot and dabbed?

The wall with the windows on which is done half way up looks like there may be a 4mm difference across the wall, I'm not a tiler but if the adhesive can be up to 12mm thick should this not be able to be overcome without dotting and dabbing?

What should I do next? Is the job actually wrong/bad? If it's wrong can it be salvaged?

Thanks

zap

 

[orange peel]

I did the prep myself, I had to take the room back to stud work as it had wallpaper directly on plasterboard dot and dabbed on to lath and plaster. The original stud work wasn't perfectly plumb so the cement boards may be off but would this result in dotting and dabbing being the only option?
If the walls were so bad that it couldn't be notched and buttered wouldn't it be safer to take the boards off plane the stud work plumb rather than dotting and dabbing the tiles?



Zap

to achieve a good job is always down to prep, if you boarded the walls and there not flat are plumb then that would be down to you ,

 

[Rich Midge]

If there's only 2 to 4mm gaps behind a straight edge then a solid bed should be achievable. Difficult to tell from the pics though. Where this becomes a real problem is if the walls are obviously convex not concave. It's easier to correct a dip than a lump in the walls. A 2mm lump in the wall with large format tiles will show as much deeper by the time you get further along the wall. Obviously if you did the prep then it's up to you to get the walls right first. However, this is still not an excuse to dot and dab. There is never a good reason to dot and dab. Cut your losses now and get a professional in who cares about the job.

 

[kimboslash]

IMO You should not accept this standard of work, get it corrected now rather than dealing with the consequences somewhere down the line.

 

[Dash J]

Here's my take on it
for me dot,dabbing is not acceptable,there are loads who disagree tho
i posted on another forum a while back regarding dot dabbing
apparently old Italian craftsmen always dotted tiles and never had any problems
walls is 75% coverage and 100% in wet areas surely dots can cover 75% of a tile
i know its all right to say it is illegal to dot dab but honestly some of the prep I have been left through the years would make you spot fix
just to clarify I don't agree with doing it but there are plenty out there who do and think it's ok
just stating that before I get ripped to shreds lol

 

[Handyeire]

Here's my take on it
for me dot,dabbing is not acceptable,there are loads who disagree tho
i posted on another forum a while back regarding dot dabbing
apparently old Italian craftsmen always dotted tiles and never had any problems
walls is 75% coverage and 100% in wet areas surely dots can cover 75% of a tile
i know its all right to say it is illegal to dot dab but honestly some of the prep I have been left through the years would make you spot fix
just to clarify I don't agree with doing it but there are plenty out there who do and think it's ok
just stating that before I get ripped to shreds lol

Ill admit I have been guilty of dat dab in the past though it was when I just started out as an 18yr old, that was a few decades ago, now I couldn't take the chance because I wouldn't want to ruin my reputation. In saying all this, I dat and dabbed most of my grandmothers bathroom 17 years ago because the walls where bad and didn't have time or money to fix it but the tiles are still hanging today so it aint all bad thou as I mention before, I would never do it now.

 

[stusgsx]

Did he pva the walls first?