tiling over chipboard floating floor! help needed

[Arn Wheeler]

hi everyone,

firstly i went to have a look at a kitchen floor that needed tiling.now there were tiles already down on a chipboard floating floor with foam sheets /celotex underneath it.
the customer has removed all the floor tiles and surprisingly they got them up well, and got all the excess adhesive up as well.

when i quoted the job i had it in my head to get nicobond plastic ply but got distracted when i was quoting and forgot to mention it.
by now Ive spoken to the customer explaining the figures didnt add up in my quote.and there like 'hmmmm well OK , how much is it going to cost extra' . i don't want the customer doubting my knowledge as i have been tiling for over 7 years and am fully qualified

so i replied with sorry my mistake and i will sort it , even if i meet them half way with a price to use plastic ply.

now if i was to ask them to get the carpenter to lay ply down first would it firstly be 15mm or 18mm because i was always told at college use 18mm marine grade ply wood. if i use plywood would you recommend screwing down every 6 inches squared.

what thickness would you recommend and the grade???

and does anyone know how much plastic plywood be to cover 22 m2 in area? i can find out tomorrow with nicobond but want to get my views over now to everyone.

i will be using bal apd to prime floor area. and bal single part flexi adhesive with bal super-flex grout.

or could i tile straight over the chipboard. (tbh id rather not because i know it can course cracking and in the future will cause problems). p.s its not by the tiling bible lol

thanks for looking.

reply's would be very helpful.

cheers

 

[kilty55]

hi aren personally i wouldnt tile it

 

[Arn Wheeler]

that really hasnt helped me kilty55. but what if a plywood covers the existing plywood?

 

[CJ]

If you are fully qualified, then you will know the problems floating floors cause. I am with Kilty55 on this. I personally don't touch floaters anymore.......as you usually get a phone call fairly quickly.

Sorry to pee on your chips.

 

[Arn Wheeler]

tbh this is the first time ive had to tile over a floating floor.the floor feels solid and doesnt bounce plus its not guna have alot of heavy foot traffic over it. what experience have you had with floating floors then CJ. the ceramic tiled floor that was down previously was absoultely fine with no signs of cracks or any tiles lifting.

any way thanks for that bit of info guys. i will go ahead and tile it and hope for the best......fingers crossed.

 

[CJ]

I have seen tooo many tiled floors that should never have been tiled.............you could feel the movement. Large cracks usually appear in line with the joints.

Hoping for the best may.......or may not come back to bite you if it does, it could cost you more in the long run.

If your gonna "hope for the best" then at least use 2 part and wide joint with additive.

I'D STILL REFUSE THIS JOB.

 

[Arn Wheeler]

tbh this is the first time ive had to tile over a floating floor.the floor feels solid and doesnt bounce plus its not guna have alot of heavy foot traffic over it. what experience have you had with floating floors then CJ. the ceramic tiled floor that was down previously was absoultely fine with no signs of cracks or any tiles lifting.

any way thanks for that bit of info guys. i will go ahead and tile it and hope for the best......fingers crossed.

 

[Arn Wheeler]

CJ what '2 part' and 'additive' would you recommend?
and is this based on tiling straight on top of the chipboard floor?

cheers pal

 

[Lukass]

I'm with above posters. I would not touch that especially when you paying half for materials. Sometimes is better to say no.

If i have to tile that with a owner sticking gun to my head, I would probably use 18mm ply with plenty screws and stick Shluter Ditra Mat (I don't tile on timber floor without Ditra anymore) on top with Mapei Ultrabond, than use Keraquick with Latex. If there is still tiny movement I would use Latex instead of water with Mapei grout, it does however make it darker and dry fast.

 

[Rookery]

I wouldnt tile on a floating floor either. It may feel solid but if you put a pendulum laser on the floor and walk about you'll see how much the beam bounces therefore showing you the movement. Equally I wouldnt tile over ply either, I'd use Hardie.

 

[Perry]

Are you insured for bad workmanship ?

 

[kilty55]

tbh this is the first time ive had to tile over a floating floor.the floor feels solid and doesnt bounce plus its not guna have alot of heavy foot traffic over it. what experience have you had with floating floors then CJ. the ceramic tiled floor that was down previously was absoultely fine with no signs of cracks or any tiles lifting.

any way thanks for that bit of info guys. i will go ahead and tile it and hope for the best......fingers crossed.

im sorry my answer hasnt helped you or cjs or anyone elses for that matter,so your qualifed but have no idea as to what materials to use on the job that shouldnt be getting tiled in the 1st instance ?

im not going to give you any info on what materials you can use as i dont agree that you should be tiling it from your descrition.......i hope that helps.

 

[stoner]

I've done lots of suspended floors and never had one callback in 6 years. I just overboard with hardie backer or NMP, glued and screwed. Works for me.

 

[Rookery]

Its not a suspended floor, its a floating floor.

 

[stoner]

Oops my bad

 

[Arn Wheeler]

firstly PJC dont insult me.im fully insured and never do a bad job ......... and KILTY55 thats rite i am qualified and do know what materials to use i.e addys and grouts but i was just wanting to know if there's anything else out there differnt to what i use all the time.i.e something designed for that.like i say this would have been the first time ive come acroos a tile over floating floor job.and tbf ive got nvq2, diploma level 2 and city guilds and went to plymouth CFE and in the whole course there were know mention of not to tile over a floating floor.'ive even checked all notes and paperwork from college'. :smilewinkgrin: this is meant to be a forum to give people advice and help if needed.not take the mic out of other tiler or try make me look UN professional.any way for any one else that wants to know the customer has two choices now which are: 'the floating floor has been ripped out and then have a concrete screed layed down' 0r ' i lay hardi board over chipboard and screw and glue'. down side to hardi board is that doesn't give me enough clearance on the double glazed back door, especially as theres 15mm natural slate and 10mm addy and 12mm hardi board. :hurray:

 

[mz30]

Regardless of what some people suggest ,while tiling on floating floors is a pain it is not impossible,using hardi-backer etc is a good start ,a decent 2-part flexi adhesive on top will be a must along with a flexi grout ,expansion joints depending on size.

just a quick google search will give you some solutions ,
I found this at weber(which a lot of the guys recommend)

Although relatively small tiles can be fixed directly onto small areas of tongued and grooved floating floors using specialist products such as weber.set WF21 or weber.set rapid flex, a much more secure solution is to fix a second board over the existing timber. This increases the rigidity of the floor and prevents localised movement, thus making it a far better substrate for tile fixing. If a water-resistant tile backer-board is used to overboard, it will virtually eliminate any moisture related movement.

 

[Arn Wheeler]

thank you mz30 good advice taken anywhere you can suggest to buy weber addy at a good price from? as all local tiles shops around me dont stock weber mate.

 

[mz30]

No idea for cornwall mate,there are other products you could use just make sure its a 2 part flex,tbh honest i havent used weber for ages except there tubbed stuff which was very wet,always prefered bal products personally.

 

[Arn Wheeler]

ok thanks anyway....ive used ardex addy and weber flexi grout..but wasnt keen on webers flexi grout as kept shrinking in the jiont, and was far creamy. i prefer bal products too. bal fast flex is a good one too.

 

[Andy Allen]

i would NEVER tile a floating floor, ive seen many, many failures in my time, it just aint worth it imo..

 

[White Room]

tbh this is the first time ive had to tile over a floating floor.the floor feels solid and doesnt bounce plus its not guna have alot of heavy foot traffic over it. what experience have you had with floating floors then CJ. the ceramic tiled floor that was down previously was absoultely fine with no signs of cracks or any tiles lifting.

any way thanks for that bit of info guys. i will go ahead and tile it and hope for the best......fingers crossed.

A song and a prayer won't help you if it fails, the guys have advised with years of experience on this matter.....your choice at the end of the day though.

 

[Ceramico tiling]

I doubt hardi will give it any substantial longevity. It will still move at the joints. I have always wondered if laying a 20mm thick adhesive screed on top of the hardi would make the floor rigid/compress it enough to tile.(perhaps a cement/sand addi mixture)... and then ditra on top for good measure.
Anyone have any thoughts? Surely there must be a way to offer some longevity on these floors?

 

[ythan]

there's a lot of differences of opinion and a lot of myths about tiling on chipboard. i say go ahead with bal on chipboard - you won't have a problem = just make sure you mix the addy properly, lay a good even layer, and bed the tiles down well.

check out this long thread - http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-adhesive-grout-substrate-preparation/10940-tiling-over-floor-grade-chipboard.html

 

[pete f]

sometimes they just cant see the wood for the trees