Where do i stand ?

[mikethetile]

pleased you are at this stage with her, it could have been a lot worse, she sounds reasonable

at least she is happy with your work and accepts your not a plumber and you only did it because your plumber let you down

as peckers said weve all been there , I had a plumber cut through live central heating pipes instead of the feeds to the bathroom. that was bad enough but it was the third floor on a house converted to flats so he flooded 3 flats inc the basement, 4 if you count the damage he did to my customers

just when you think things couldnt be worse I find out he has no insurance, mine wouldnt cover it as he had his own business and wasnt my employee

that little episode cost me thousands and took months to complete the redecs . but I got there in the end and saved something of my wrecked reputation

 

[SandyFloor]

Ouch! Mike, that must have been a bad time for you...a really bad time. I'm assuming you always check for insurance now. A very expensive way to learn that lesson though. To be fair to you I've always assumed plumbers have insurance but I'll make sure to check in future.

 

[peckers]

pleased you are at this stage with her, it could have been a lot worse, she sounds reasonable

at least she is happy with your work and accepts your not a plumber and you only did it because your plumber let you down

as peckers said weve all been there , I had a plumber cut through live central heating pipes instead of the feeds to the bathroom. that was bad enough but it was the third floor on a house converted to flats so he flooded 3 flats inc the basement, 4 if you count the damage he did to my customers

just when you think things couldnt be worse I find out he has no insurance, mine wouldnt cover it as he had his own business and wasnt my employee

that little episode cost me thousands and took months to complete the redecs . but I got there in the end and saved something of my wrecked reputation

When using subbys ensure they have there own insurance too.

 

[mikethetile]

ive learnt my lesson on that one

it took a while to sort the work as I had to deal with all their insurerers, the damage wasnt that severe as it had run down the hall walls in each flat , but that meant de humidifiers in every flat and compensation for their leccie bills, then carpet cleaning.no ceilings were down so it was make good and redecorate. I was shocked at how much it had cost when I did my return

under the circumstances I was able to write it off as a business expense, but at the time I thought I was finished and would never work again

one of the insurers put me on their list of contractors and sent me on jobs from time to time

talking about checking for insurance also get them to sign a disclaimer to say they are not claiming unemployment benefit but thats another story

 

[Mike]

he don't sound like a competent plumber. if he tells you the service valve is leaking , surely it can only be the olive? why would it need changing?

 

[jay]

do you trust your plumber sounds like he is the problem just a thought

 

[mikethetile]

service valves are prone to leaking where the screw goes in the front if they have been used a lot

 

[Scott]

I have had them fail from new

 

[Smudger]

I think you've been really unlucky here. I think you're right to not touch the plumbing. Once you break the seal on an old compression valve it can be impossible to seal again. As a plumber I would always insist on fitting new ones. I feel you've been hard done by as the customer pressed you to do the job in the knowledge that you were not a plumber. Even so, she can argue that you caused the leak and you are liable to make good. I tiled a toilet and fitted new wc. As I had to put wc back in temporarily overnight (only one) I replaced old fittings. The next day I noticed there was a very slight leak which wasn't there when I left. When I went to collect cheque the customer showed me some staining in the kitchen where water had run down a crack in plaster. I offered to repair but this actually involved repainting the whole kitchen so cost me a 5 litre tin of Dulux Trade. When I went to do the painting he asked me to do some more work so all worked out well.
I disagree with your plumber, even a seemingly small leak under mains pressure will create a lot of water. You've absolutely done the right thing by communicating with her, giving her good service will only help to build trust and could lead to more business in future. Hope you still manage to make a bit on the job, chalk it up to experience, and make the best of the situation.

 

[Graham100]

Messy. Looks like she plans to deduct the cost of her new plumber from your money. Try and talk her round. Keep calm and tell her that you are on her side and only want the job done properly for her.

If that fails, calmly point out that she has broken the law and potentially commited fraud by stopping the cheque. Reccomend that she takes legal advice on it urgently or you will be forced to take legal action.

Look into it yourself, I think you will find you have the law very much on your side regardless of the plumbing work.

 

[mikethetile]

its not illegal to stop a cheque

its illegal to issue a cheque with no intention of honouring it, under these circumstances she can withhold payment untill the works are completed and that means sstopping the cheque which was issued before she realised there was an issue with the plumbing

only if she doesnt pay can you sue her

 

[Graham100]

its not illegal to stop a cheque

its illegal to issue a cheque with no intention of honouring it, under these circumstances she can withhold payment untill the works are completed and that means sstopping the cheque which was issued before she realised there was an issue with the plumbing

only if she doesnt pay can you sue her

Sorry to dissagree. With my previous company (general contractors) we fitted a uPVC door & surround for a dotty old bird. We fitted it, she said she liked it and handed over a cheque for the outstanding balance and stopped it straight away. When I found out it had been stopped I rang her and asked why. She said she wanted it hinged the other way. Our contract had a clear drawing showing hinges, & handle & stated that it was viewed from outside. Despite this she said she mis-understood and would not pay until it was replaced.

I eventually & begrudgingly took her to the small claims court, she didn't show up so I was sat there with the judge on my own. He explained that the only time that a cheque can be stopped is if there is a suspicion of fraud. Other than that, in his words; "it's like handing over cash then sending henchmen to take it back"
Regardless of the quality of the work, you cannot stop a cheque once it's issued. You CAN refuse to write the cheque, but once you have paid it, if you feel that you have a grievance you have to go to the courts if you can't get satisfaction.

We were given judgement and a cheque duly arrived for the full balance plus the court fees.

Regardless of what state the work is in, you can take her to court and she will be made to honour the cheque.

 

[Olz]

Graham is right, there are three and only three reasons you can legally stop a cheque they are;

1.) The person who issues the cheque recieved nothing in exchange (note this doesnt cover defective goods/services only absolutley nothing)

2.) The contract in respect of which the cheque is issued is illegal

3.) The cheque was obtained fraudulently

Hence why the absolute worst thing you can ever do when your not happy with work done for you in stop the cheque.

He could take the customer to court right now if he wanted on the basis that he has done something for her and she has cancelled the cheque, he would win probably without there even being a hearing, and he would get the full face amount of the cheque, plus interest and the court cost back.

I've done it before when a customer took the mick and bounced a cheque, then cancelled another one pretending she wasnt happy with the work, the quality of the work (which was fine) didnt even form part of the case and the judgement was made by default the minute the judge was issued with a letter from the customer to me pretending to not be happy with the work and a copy of the cheque endorsed by the bank as cancelled by the customer.

Although like I said before, the customer in this case would have a good case to also sue for the cost of repair work to be done, providing she gives chance for it to be rectified first and the OP doesnt get it sorted.

I can absolutley assure you that I am 100% correct about the customer not being able to cancel the cheque in these circumstances.

 

[J.R Tiling]

Cheers Guys

I dont really want to go down the court route to be honest as she seems to be resonable enough (so Far), and she has said she is happy with my work so dont really want to go upsetting her , i think she intends to use the money she was going to pay me to pay for the repairs wich is fair enough , and said she will send me anything that is left over plus rceipts for the work carried out. If i get enough back to cover costs of mats then it wont be too bad i supose.

 

[mikethetile]

Sorry to dissagree. With my previous company (general contractors) we fitted a uPVC door & surround for a dotty old bird. We fitted it, she said she liked it and handed over a cheque for the outstanding balance and stopped it straight away. When I found out it had been stopped I rang her and asked why. She said she wanted it hinged the other way. Our contract had a clear drawing showing hinges, & handle & stated that it was viewed from outside. Despite this she said she mis-understood and would not pay until it was replaced.

I eventually & begrudgingly took her to the small claims court, she didn't show up so I was sat there with the judge on my own. He explained that the only time that a cheque can be stopped is if there is a suspicion of fraud. Other than that, in his words; "it's like handing over cash then sending henchmen to take it back"
Regardless of the quality of the work, you cannot stop a cheque once it's issued. You CAN refuse to write the cheque, but once you have paid it, if you feel that you have a grievance you have to go to the courts if you can't get satisfaction.

We were given judgement and a cheque duly arrived for the full balance plus the court fees.

Regardless of what state the work is in, you can take her to court and she will be made to honour the cheque.

thats right she issued a cheque with the intention of not honouring it, which is illegal

stopping a cheque because it is for the incorrect amount is not, when the cheque was issued it was her intention to honour it but it was stopped when the problems arose

whole different ball game

jr is taking the right approach and will come out of this with his reputation intact , weve all been there and had to take it on the chin, not nice when it happens , but it happens