Who owns the receipts?

[Pebbs]

So to push that to its logical extreme I work for a large company that buys materials from suppliers all the time. They buy materials from their suppliers and so on and so on. What you seem to be saying is that my company should not pay its suppliers without a copy of the receipts they have for the materials they buy from their suppliers etc etc... It just doesn't sound right.... Or am I reading it wrong??

Actually Alan you must be reading it wrong, because I was told that is someone is self employed and not a limited company, then we want a copy of those materials reciepts for any audit. I dont see what is wrong with asking for a copy of any materials reciepts, if you dont have those copies, the hmrc are legally entitled to claw all those payments back because you dont have the back up.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

So the receipts are just proof of purchase/expense and the co. are not claiming the invoice/vat for themselves!
The tiler could be claiming £148 total which is made up of £48 labour and £100 expenses which he has no record of. That way he would only be having 20% deducted off the £48.

 

[Gazzer]

I have never been asked for receipts only copies when I used to do Shopfitters work.

 

[Diggy]

The receipts are yours , your invoice is their receipt , it's that simple.

By all means give them a breakdown of what you supplied etc and what you are charging THEM for those materials , but it is not for you - in general - to supply them with details of your profit margin by telling them - by sending them your receipts - what YOU paid for said materials.

When was the last time anyone went to a supermarket , bought shopping , paid , received a receipt , then asked for proof of what the supermarket paid for what they just sold you?

Never I'd venture to suggest.



Diggy

 

[Dan]

What was the outcome of this, have you been paid?

 

[afright]

Itemized invoice is the receipt.

 

[Pebbs]

Seriously come on now, do you think you can throw an invoice in the a tiling contractor, and have no back up copies of the materials you have purchased. Johns right, without that copy, you could tell me you'd spent £30.00 a bag, but the reality is you may have only spent £15.00. Its not a case I want to claim the vat back, its not worth our while, to key it on the system. If we got a vat inspection, they want to see the copies of the reciepts, if we dont have them, then we are dropped in it. They are looking to pull in extra revenue at every opportunity, if your paperwork is not 100% spot on, they will have you.

And the comment about showing them your profit margin, on a bag of adhesive? you think its ok to charge a bit extra on a bag of adhesive? How about I start counting all the half buckets of sticky that get binned everyday because certain tilers think its ok to do that when the tiling contactor is paying for the adhesive...if they were paying for it out of their pockets would they do the same? would they hell as like. Lets not even go there, some tilers can't even be bothered to wash out a bucket at the end of the day, because its easier to bin it or send it back into the yard for someone else to do it and use a new one the following day.

Lynn

 

[Sean Kelly]

What was the outcome of this, have you been paid?

Yes Dan, I got paid. I double checked this morning just in case I was dreaming!

This really is a can of worms. All this palava over a bag of adhesive. This scenario must only apply to contractors who have the time to claw back every single penny from a job. OK, a bag of adhesive cost me £16.79. I charged the contractor £18.00. If I had showed him the original receipt then what would have happened? Yes, a string of emails and delayed payment. I rounded up the cost of the addy and I made a whopping £1.21 profit.

Did I charge the contractor for getting the addy? Did I charge petrol money getting to the job? Did I charge for primer, spacers, microfiber cloths? No – It’s swings and roundabouts. If the contractor want’s to claim back vat or whatever, he should have supplied materials and transported them to the job. That would have cost him more money as he is physically 240 miles from London.

I know I’m mad for charging £150 for London work, but this guy has given me lots of work in the past.

 

[andy8758]

Sean

Out of interest why was the congestion charge itemised? You did not itemise your diesel so why itemise congestion? Even if you are self employed your day rate needs to include your overhead costs and that should include the congestion charge - at the end of the year you are accountable to hmrc to justify that and include the receipt. Although I am running a limited company, when I work (for e.g.) in central Bath and have to pay for parking for a day, the "day Rate" to customers increases to cover the additional £12 to £16 (depending on how long you park.

Andy

 

[Pebbs]

Yes Dan, I got paid. I double checked this morning just in case I was dreaming!

This really is a can of worms. All this palava over a bag of adhesive. This scenario must only apply to contractors who have the time to claw back every single penny from a job. OK, a bag of adhesive cost me £16.79. I charged the contractor £18.00. If I had showed him the original receipt then what would have happened? Yes, a string of emails and delayed payment. I rounded up the cost of the addy and I made a whopping £1.21 profit.

Did I charge the contractor for getting the addy? Did I charge petrol money getting to the job? Did I charge for primer, spacers, microfiber cloths? No – It’s swings and roundabouts. If the contractor want’s to claim back vat or whatever, he should have supplied materials and transported them to the job. That would have cost him more money as he is physically 240 miles from London.

I know I’m mad for charging £150 for London work, but this guy has given me lots of work in the past.

It is a can of worms your right there, I thought you had probably run out of adhesive, but all those extras you should have whacked them on the bill (with a copy of the reciepts!).

But as a by note about the £150.00 a day, I was looking through the classifieds the other day on the train. I nearly spat my latte out when I saw not one but two companies advertising for 'experienced' tilers on long term contracts. Apart from wanting the usual card and full ppe gear...the day rate was a staggeringly high amount of £118.00 a day! and the other one was £125.00 a day!!! Of course I immediately went back to the office and reduced all the lads day rates down accordingly....not really but the thought did cross my mind for half a millisecond, before the thought of a mass walk out struck me. The cold hard fact is someone will work for that, and again we will see rates going down the pan. Its not good.

Pebbs

 

[John Benton]

It is a can of worms your right there, I thought you had probably run out of adhesive, but all those extras you should have whacked them on the bill (with a copy of the reciepts!).

But as a by note about the £150.00 a day, I was looking through the classifieds the other day on the train. I nearly spat my latte out when I saw not one but two companies advertising for 'experienced' tilers on long term contracts. Apart from wanting the usual card and full ppe gear...the day rate was a staggeringly high amount of £118.00 a day! and the other one was £125.00 a day!!! Of course I immediately went back to the office and reduced all the lads day rates down accordingly....not really but the thought did cross my mind for half a millisecond, before the thought of a mass walk out struck me. The cold hard fact is someone will work for that, and again we will see rates going down the pan. Its not good.

Pebbs

Someones got to pay for it Lynn, and your croissants :sofahide:

 

[ian158]

It's like asking tesco for a receipt for the milk they bought from the farmer before your prepared to pay at the till...all they need is a receipt for their books..even if you've made ££ on the adhesive, they know the job was within the cc charge so what's the issue...spose the cheques in the post next!

 

[Diggy]

And the comment about showing them your profit margin, on a bag of adhesive? you think its ok to charge a bit extra on a bag of adhesive? How about I start counting all the half buckets of sticky that get binned everyday because certain tilers think its ok to do that when the tiling contactor is paying for the adhesive...if they were paying for it out of their pockets would they do the same?

Lynn

Pebbs , before it all gets out of hand , I think you'll find we are talking at cross puprposes.
I miss read the OP and was assuming he was doing a job AND supplying adhesive , on re-reading this appears not to be the case.

My point applies to work where labour AND materials are being supplied.

Your point applies to a subby supplying labour ONLY and a bag of addy appears to have been supplied due to a shortfall by the main contractor , in which case the contractor MAY require proof of purchase along with a copy of receipt for the toll.

My point still stands though, the receipts are his , BUT, in this case copies may need to be provided. All depends on the relationship you have with the contractor I suppose , I've charged a guy I contract to, 2 or 3 times for a couple of bits ( switch for a sigma in one case ) and bobs and he doesn't even blink tbh.

So were both right.

Diggy

 

[Sean Kelly]

Sean

Out of interest why was the congestion charge itemised?

Andy

Andy, I did not add the CC charge to my day rate because I do not want to be taxed on it (20% CIS). I do not charge the customer for petrol because it is a business expense. However, last year I worked in Somerset for one day. The contractor said he would pay my petrol. Strangely enough he is the same contractor that this thread is about.

My mate John who is a quantity surveyor said last night that he would ask contractors for receipts on invoices that he thought were too high. Some invoices are just made up of figures just plucked from the air and he needs proof if he thinks they are trying to pull a fast one.

John also said that if I had done a quote for a job and listed labour and materials and it was accepted (on the basis of that quote) then the contractor should not be asking for receipts.

I was asked to do the job and told that I needed a bag of adhesive. We all know that what I charged for the adhesive was not excessive.

Lynn, I will shut up about the £150, and count my lucky stars it’s not the 2 amounts in the classifieds you saw.

 

[Diggy]

John also said that if I had done a quote for a job and listed labour and materials and it was accepted (on the basis of that quote) then the contractor should not be asking for receipts.

.

Exactly.

Diggy

 

[Colour Republic]

Well you live and learn, because I got told the other day, not to pay out any expenses without a copy of the reciept, because if the hmrc come in, they want to see the back up info...just saying....

Expenses are different Lynn. They are payments you have made on their behalf, in which case you give them the receipts and they reimburse you but you do not invoice them as well. They can not have both.

 

[andy8758]

Andy, I did not add the CC charge to my day rate because I do not want to be taxed on it (20% CIS). I do not charge the customer for petrol because it is a business expense. However, last year I worked in Somerset for one day. The contractor said he would pay my petrol. Strangely enough he is the same contractor that this thread is about.

Sean.

I can fully understand the desire to reduce CIS payments. It took me 18 months to recover the last lot of overpaid CIS. I know most people in trades add up their annual costs for the year before (including fuel, VEL, insurance, congestion charge and parking fines) and add it to their desired pay level to get a "day rate." It could be argued that working in an area which required additional charges to be handled, the day rate would increase accordingly. I charge a higher rate to work in Bath where free parking is almost non-existent (except some residents permit areas where tradesmen can receive free permit). But then I also don't tend to take on commercial work where I expect to get ripped off. (Apologies in advance to the few good contractors out there who pay their tilers on time in full).

All the best for your future sub-contracting.

Andy