Wikileak

[Dan]

The issue is here that he's a journalist. And he's the first really to dig right into the news we're not being reported and should be. The governments are so used to stopping the news they don't want get heard from being heard and this guy is totally the opposite. We have a right to know about these US war crimes as somebody will eventually need to be accountable. And if not in this war, then maybe the next.

If the minority can't take the truth, so be it. The majority should learn what's going on still if they wish to. Plus the type of majority I think you're mentioning will make up their own 'truths' with our without facts. I can't imagine many of the EDL can use the net they don't seem to have many brain cells. And likewise with suicide bombers.

It's all down to journalism and the fact they can publish news for the sake of news. News of the World got on a plane with no boarding pass weeks after 911 and in an airport that was meant to be code red high security jobby. The reason he didn't go down is because it's news and there are journalistic laws that protect speaking about news and publishing their findings.

The submissions to wikileaks are anonymous, and are all facts (they don't publish news when competitors of oil companies and the likes are submitting it for the sake of profiting somehow), and should be published and known about in the public domain.

 

[doug boardley]

I hear what you're saying Dan,,,but,,,, should world affairs just be an open book and accessible to all and sundry??

 

[Dan]

Only crimes within them Doug. To help prevent more of it.

Nothing is news if it's just fact "10 millitants killed, 1 soldier IED'd during May" doesn't really strike headlines. But "US soldiers given orders from above to kill known unarmed civilians, 2 children, 2 reuters reporters, 18 other men and women, using an Apache gunship for no known reason" is. And should be!

 

[doug boardley]

yep, I agree, that should be brought to the fore

 

[Dan]

Well the afgan war logs are all about that, mainly war crimes not currently being reported. And the US cables (a separate batch) is all mainly about governments being sly behind each others backs. I doubt it'll get anybody's backs up other than politicians.

It's the whole reason the US especially, but other countries too, have already started campaigns in the corrupt news corps, trying to get the people of their country to believe them so they can say it's all untrue. It's failing big-time and Australia have stated he's broken no law there, here in the UK he hasn't, Sweden it's only sex offences and one is a woman said wear a johnny and he didn't, the other claims he slept with her whilst she was a sleep. Clearly they both approved of going to be with him then?!?!?

It'll all backfire, we'll eventually end up with the internal memo's telling departments what to believe, do and say to get julian arrested all leaked and they'll look even more like fools then.

Far too may supporters of what he's doing, and they're all people that have read some of the cables and see know it's fact and not just them assuming what they've believed for years before now. He got his £240,000 bail in cash in 24 hours from supporters. I bet that's shocked the government and the Switzerland who shut his bank accounts as they did that to prevent him being released.

 

[DHTiling]

One question.. Who says these Cables are legit.. as in the truth..?.. just wikileaks..?

 

[Dan]

They cross reference hundreds of thousands of them. And also with other news agencies who clearly have been getting these for years. Though they setup the website up in 2006. Only this year when they released the video (which can't be questioned) has it caused an uproar with the USA and all their crownie countries. Inc us it seems as America put pressure on Cameron to put pressure on CPS to refuse bail. What a joke we are. I thought this government would answer to us not the USA!

Only when they have sure fact do they then offer the cables to be published (not fully publish them themselves) to which then the likes of the Guardian publish the facts in the news. Then the BBC report on that. Which seems to protect their government-relations.

If you didn't see "the war you don't see" on TV the other night get it on iplayer (or whatever, I can't remember the channel, might have been 4 so use 4od).

The cables are truth and even the USA are not denying that which is as good as confirming it.

 

[DHTiling]

To tell the truth,, i have tried to ignore this as i think or thought it was just some media hype..

Maybe i need to look more into it..

 

[Dan]

I would and here's the best place. Julian Assange | Media | guardian.co.uk

It's serious stuff Dave. The USA could even introduce Laws to get Julian locked up for live. Bradley Manning is a soldier being detained on suspicion of leaking the Apache gun ship video which was filmed in 2007. Only today have the USA started to suggest that he is now suffering from Sycopathic Behaviour. They want him locked up in a mental institute for life.

All he wanted to do was fight for his country. But he eventually ended up working with the secret intelligence dept somewhere and had access to these videos and documents (the first ones "afgan war logs" not the "cables" which are a different set of leaks). He was shocked of the crimes being committed under instruction of his superiors, and he knew what was being reported "officially" in the press "that they were militants"!!!!! - So now he's in USA Physco hospital, or will be soon if he aint. You don't come out of those in the US. They're not like ours. And especially given the situation. Its the guantanamo way of dealing with american citizens that they don't want in the public domain.

Bradley knows to much. He can't be released now.

It's worth noting he's Welsh but served for the US as he lived there. Or something like that.

We will not be able to absorb the full implications of this even in a few years time. This is history being made right here. 🙂 And good history for a change.

 

[DHTiling]

Yep..ok.. i will read that.. just not now.. all beeeered up.🙂

 

[DHTiling]

book marked though

 

[Dan]

I think a lot of people, and it's proven in polls that the USA are accepting all this as truth a lot less than most parts of the world. I think of it as a learning curve we all need to learn. And it's not all a conspiracy thing like the usual thing.

I see it like this:-

When I was 4 I believed in santa, when I grew up I learnt that he didn't exist.
When I was 10 I believed in UFO's, when I grew up I learnt they didn't exist, but other life forms in the sense of cells and whatnot may exist somewhere but we're yet to find much, not even in water-ice.
When I was 18 I believed governments were corrupt, I never voted untill this year, but over the years learnt a little about politics (and even from discussion on here) and decided to vote. I voted for Conservatives as I believed them to be less corrupt than Labour.

Now I have the chance to actually learn the truth about this. And this will affect my view on news agencies, governments, wars, and even life!

This is probably one of the best things I've learnt.

It's just going to take a while for everybody to care enough to have a read and more importantly, a honest, well-informed view on it. And only then can you really comment, as we'd say on here. (But I'm not actually saying right now, mind).

 

[DHTiling]

When I was 4 I believed in santa, when I grew up I learnt that he didn't exist.

What you mean he don't exist.,.

 

[Dan]

Sorry, sorry, I meant to say 'I learnt through fact that he DOES exist' it's a really long typo. :lol:

 

[DHTiling]

:lol: pheewwwwwww...

 

[user123]

What you mean he don't exist.,.

Sorry, sorry, I meant to say 'I learnt through fact that he DOES exist' it's a really long typo. :lol:

:lol: pheewwwwwww...

Aawwhhhhhhhh... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Dan]

Julian Assange: Ecuadorian embassy statement in full - Telegraph

So this still goes on.

Assange, if you've been following, is still in the UK who still wants to extradite him to Sweden, who has said before now (but in more recent times has done a big U-turn on the issue) they would consider extradition to the USA, where Bradley Manning, a bloke who has still not had a trial with regards to accusations that he leaked the initial secret data, containing tens of thousands of war crimes (even though USA is still trying to overthrow governments for similar crimes), is being tortured (according to UN reviews - what reviews they could carry out with all the blocks USA put in place to protect even more possible crimes) as if it's the 1800's, has written a speech.

The above speech is in full, and includes the fact that even though the UK Government have said they wouldn't, and couldn't, storm the building, actually have. However if you scan BBC versions of this, they cut the speech video, and don't include much of these facts in their quotes.

I wish there were a lot more blokes like this within governments. As I'm sure we'd learn a lot more about who WE give these powers to when voting.

I'm sure USA are behind most of these 'civil' wars and are in fact just trying to stick a bloke in charge who they control, and if they can't, they'll cause a small war that doesn't cost them as much as them going to war themselves.

5 million the UK have given to Sirian "rebels" which is what they were calling them at first. Now they're naming them something like "the peoples army" lol

Proper joke.

I hope Julian does get to Ecuador and never ends up in the US. And still manages to publish their wrong-doings in this world.

China and their ways seem minor if all these stories are actually facts. I wish the Media would publish more in understandable stories as it takes yonks to get your head around the 'cables' and documents written by politicians when you read Wikileaks documents.

If you can't find the info on Wikileaks, don't worry, there are millions of torrents out there which will allow you to download the whole lot in a big chunk.

Do you think he should have stayed out of it? Or would you rather know what's really going on behind all these wars?

 

[Olz]

I dont know much about it but saw on the news that sweden is one of the biggest protectors of human rights in the world and have made the assurances that he wont be passed to the USA.

I think the chances of the embassy being entered to get him is non existant, I dont think it would have happened anyway but even less so know becuase its in the media spotlight.

I also think the chances of him getting to ecaudor are non existant, judging by the news reports there are police inside the building (which is used by others apart from ecaudor, who just have a small part of it, the entire building isnt there embassy), and outside.

Its right that he seeks assurances from sweden, but once they come he should immediatley go to sweden to face the accusations, not least because if the accusations are true thee victims must be completley distraught that he is able to avoid justice, IF they allegations are true.

I think his extradition is inevitable ultimatley, its going to be interesting to see how it pans out.

If the assurances come from sweden do you think he will leave the embassy, I reckon if the assurances come they will recind his assylum.

 

[Spud]

some people think they are above the law, my opinion is he should be sent to Sweden to be put on trial or he should ask for his trial to be held in any country of his choice but it seems to me he is trying to avoid his accusers completely with a loophole and is costing our tax payers a lot of money in the process

 

[DHTiling]

some people think they are above the law, my opinion is he should be sent to Sweden to be put on trial or he should ask for his trial to be held in any country of his choice but it seems to me he is trying to avoid his accusers completely with a loophole and is costing our tax payers a lot of money in the process

Now that i agree with.. a dodger he is and he knew what he was doing when he posted info on wiki leak etc..

 

[Olz]

I wonder if Ecuador will also be putting up afghans and the like in there embassy, who will also alledgedly face torture, death etc if they return home?

 

[Dan]

Apparently he's asked for the trial to be held here, back in 2010, and as he's not committed a crime here, the best UK can do is try to extradite him. Which he went to court for many times, and UK were trying to find an alternate solution to sending him there, but Sweden want him there.

I've read a bit more the last couple of days since it's been in the news a lot about the Swedish women, and give the 'facts' (what's in the news) I'd say he should go there and give his side of the story, or even just video-link it maybe? We do it for just a few miles, and it's the same situation if you needed to do it for 1 billion miles, you'd still be able to give him a trial. And that's what makes me think they do perhaps want to extradite him.

Though I can't find the articles right now, I did read a few that had quoted in 2010 that one of the 'victims' was seen with a US official, who at the time would not have been on the case unless it was connected to Wikileaks and the leaked US documents. I'm trying to find it now but it's getting late to be fair so struggling to dig deep. That's what I've always remembered with regards to this situation and what made me think US want him sent to there but UK are being a bit too pedantic with old laws etc.

Clearly if he's raped a lass, then he needs to get sent down. But in sweden not America.

Though having said that, perhaps he is guilty and he's avoiding going to sweden because if he does end up in prison for years, its all time the US can spend on putting a case together to extradite him. So perhaps there's that side of the story too maybe.

 

[Olz]

I can't see them video linking it, if he gets convicted he'd just stay put.




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[Dan]

True actually. Never thought of that.

 

[Fliselege]

Julian Assange should stop blurring different issues. What he's got legal issues for in Sweden is rape. He should go and face those legal issues and let the Swedish legal system do its work on the rape allegations.
The chances of the USA getting Sweden to hand him over for Wikileaks charges are very slight. He is essentially holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy to escape rape charges, not US oppression.
Getting bored with him to be honest, and with what he's costing the British tax payer I'm starting to wish somebody had shot him while he was on that balcony.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

But why Ecuador? Think what bad publicity they will be getting for shielding him - and I'am stopping my coffee from them instantly!

 

[Dan]

I think Assange and a president there or something are good buddies. Assange's mum even does business there of some form I read.

He should go face the charges and clear his name is he's innocent but I still think we need more blokes leaking governmental crimes. It's wrong that the taxpayer has no say in what war we need to back etc. And the fact there were no WMD's in Iraq and Osama god killed a while ago now in Pakistan, or friends, rather than Afghanistan, where America have killed hundreds of thousands, is just a bit of a joke that we have had to have our own men and womens lives lost there.

Some of the other cables show Coca Cola wiping out tribes to get a factory erected in the Amazon. And Nike did something similar too. And the US back it and help fund it for some strange reason.

It's normally always about oil. And the US consume more than they have. So they need more, and they need it cheep as they're skint.

 

[bugs183]

I'll be staying out of this debate, the 'Lashclip' saga is a big enough!!