Wikileak

[doug boardley]

The US would carry on starting wars for oil and cash then though Doug.

90% of casualties in iran, iraq and afghanistan are civilians. They get bombed, shot at and killed for Oil. And these documents all prove that.

The longer it's all kept a secret the more it continues. IMO we need more of these websites.

that maybe true Dan, but a lot of things get lost in translation so to speak, John Bull here in England may mis-read something and then his ethnic minority neighbour ends up paying the price, (or vice versa). I really do believe that some things are better kept out of the public domain.

 

[Dan]

I see where you're coming from Doug but it's not the problem of Julian or his website if somebody acts on the info. I think they need to hear that it's all for nothing to get over their differences (or lack of) and get along. The problem people like EDL and the muslim activists will exist whether they know the truth or just think they do. Doesn't make a difference around here, they're rallying weekly almost.

 

[charlie1]

even if he is guilty of assaulting women? lets wait and see

I dont think for one minute that he is, But im sure the powers that be wil make us believe he is!!

 

[Dan]

If there's one guy that has the media in his hands, it's Julian. I don't even think the powers of governments can pressure the actual journalists that work for the BBC/CNN to knock him without also giving his side to the story. Actually, perhaps CNN lol but not the BBC.

The Guardian back Julian something rotten. That's a bridge that wont be burnt by peer pressure.

 

[charlie1]

Gonna get someones backs up with this one im affraid!!, we all, in this country and America are part of an evil machine, we are stuck in it, I do feel sorry for any solders and famillies who have lost there lifes because of these ware that we have been involved in but i truley believe we are in the wrong and it has been proven to be the case!!! Its bloody mad men that rule the worl!, I'm sorry if i offend anyone

 

[Dan]

Nah I think most understand that Charlie, I wouldn't have thought anybody is offended. The soldiers get jobs to be fair to them and their families. It's just a shame full stop if you're involved in a war. One that's legal or not.

I think times are changing though. The top 5% of the world that control 95% of it's money and resources will remain. But the wars will be fought with a bit less military and a bit more behind the scenes dodgy brown envelopes in years to come.

I blame bush for it all but if somebody else was in power back then, it'd be them to blame as the IMF, General Electrical, UN and other firms that compile reports for the governments to base their actions on will always falsify the reports as they have done for years and all the wars.

Governments need to get a grip and stop being told what to do.

 

[charlie1]

Nah I think most understand that Charlie, I wouldn't have thought anybody is offended. The soldiers get jobs to be fair to them and their families. It's just a shame full stop if you're involved in a war. One that's legal or not.

I think times are changing though. The top 5% of the world that control 95% of it's money and resources will remain. But the wars will be fought with a bit less military and a bit more behind the scenes dodgy brown envelopes in years to come.

Not sure about that, as long as there is money to be made by selling arms by such massive firms as the carlyle group (who are controlled by very influential people) then there will allways be actual wars.

I blame bush for it all but if somebody else was in power back then, it'd be them to blame as the IMF, General Electrical, UN and other firms that compile reports for the governments to base their actions on will always falsify the reports as they have done for years and all the wars.

Agree, i wouldent blame bush anymore than all the reporters who have guilty minds about what they helped sell the puplic by not asking the "loaded questions" that needed to be asked at the time. Clinton / Bush / Obama are all puppets and have zero control in any major events around the world

Governments need to get a grip and stop being told what to do.

Agree, but we the public need to also get a grip and bloody wake up!

 

[Dan]

Too right there!

 

[doug boardley]

Wars will always be fought and it all depends on the popular currency, I mean was oil available in 1066? naaah, it was land and fame the war mongers wanted then, pretty much the same as it is now, (throw in religion and you have an eternal triangle), sorry but I don't see how wikileak constantly stoking the fires will lead to global harmony

 

[Dan]

You're right there but at least we know the truth about what's going on. It's a bit sad to think we're lied to sooo much that you don't know what to believe. Even knowing what little has been leaked so far is making people think about it a bit more.

We shouldn't be in the dark about what's going on. If they want their Oil, lets go get it, but lets not beat about the bush, lets just go and get it and tell them we're taking it. At least we all know the score haha (that was a joke by the way).

 

[mikethetile]

interesting what you learn, I was chatting to my mate whos a raf pilot, i mentioned the poppy fields that used to supply 90% of the opium worldwide

he said what do you mean used too, they still do. when i said that its against the muslim faith he said yes but they dont take it themselves , they sell it to fund the jihad

its about a lot more than oil and unfortunatly for the future of the world we have to be there and put a stop to the present situation

I have mixed feelings about wikileaks as the information could cause more harm than good but my belief in the freedom of speech is a lot stronger so he has my support, he wont be extradited unless there is sufficiant evidence to do so

 

[doug boardley]

the non-judgemental public would be okay handling the truth (whatever "the truth" is), but it's the mindless minority that instigate a knee jerk reaction and make a mountain out of a molehill, which then leads on to prolonged media coverage, mass hysteria etc etc etc.. I think we just have to accept the fact and stop pussyfooting around, some people are tooooo stupid to accept the truth in a responsible manner.

 

[Dan]

The issue is here that he's a journalist. And he's the first really to dig right into the news we're not being reported and should be. The governments are so used to stopping the news they don't want get heard from being heard and this guy is totally the opposite. We have a right to know about these US war crimes as somebody will eventually need to be accountable. And if not in this war, then maybe the next.

If the minority can't take the truth, so be it. The majority should learn what's going on still if they wish to. Plus the type of majority I think you're mentioning will make up their own 'truths' with our without facts. I can't imagine many of the EDL can use the net they don't seem to have many brain cells. And likewise with suicide bombers.

It's all down to journalism and the fact they can publish news for the sake of news. News of the World got on a plane with no boarding pass weeks after 911 and in an airport that was meant to be code red high security jobby. The reason he didn't go down is because it's news and there are journalistic laws that protect speaking about news and publishing their findings.

The submissions to wikileaks are anonymous, and are all facts (they don't publish news when competitors of oil companies and the likes are submitting it for the sake of profiting somehow), and should be published and known about in the public domain.

 

[doug boardley]

I hear what you're saying Dan,,,but,,,, should world affairs just be an open book and accessible to all and sundry??

 

[Dan]

Only crimes within them Doug. To help prevent more of it.

Nothing is news if it's just fact "10 millitants killed, 1 soldier IED'd during May" doesn't really strike headlines. But "US soldiers given orders from above to kill known unarmed civilians, 2 children, 2 reuters reporters, 18 other men and women, using an Apache gunship for no known reason" is. And should be!

 

[doug boardley]

yep, I agree, that should be brought to the fore

 

[Dan]

Well the afgan war logs are all about that, mainly war crimes not currently being reported. And the US cables (a separate batch) is all mainly about governments being sly behind each others backs. I doubt it'll get anybody's backs up other than politicians.

It's the whole reason the US especially, but other countries too, have already started campaigns in the corrupt news corps, trying to get the people of their country to believe them so they can say it's all untrue. It's failing big-time and Australia have stated he's broken no law there, here in the UK he hasn't, Sweden it's only sex offences and one is a woman said wear a johnny and he didn't, the other claims he slept with her whilst she was a sleep. Clearly they both approved of going to be with him then?!?!?

It'll all backfire, we'll eventually end up with the internal memo's telling departments what to believe, do and say to get julian arrested all leaked and they'll look even more like fools then.

Far too may supporters of what he's doing, and they're all people that have read some of the cables and see know it's fact and not just them assuming what they've believed for years before now. He got his £240,000 bail in cash in 24 hours from supporters. I bet that's shocked the government and the Switzerland who shut his bank accounts as they did that to prevent him being released.

 

[DHTiling]

One question.. Who says these Cables are legit.. as in the truth..?.. just wikileaks..?

 

[Dan]

They cross reference hundreds of thousands of them. And also with other news agencies who clearly have been getting these for years. Though they setup the website up in 2006. Only this year when they released the video (which can't be questioned) has it caused an uproar with the USA and all their crownie countries. Inc us it seems as America put pressure on Cameron to put pressure on CPS to refuse bail. What a joke we are. I thought this government would answer to us not the USA!

Only when they have sure fact do they then offer the cables to be published (not fully publish them themselves) to which then the likes of the Guardian publish the facts in the news. Then the BBC report on that. Which seems to protect their government-relations.

If you didn't see "the war you don't see" on TV the other night get it on iplayer (or whatever, I can't remember the channel, might have been 4 so use 4od).

The cables are truth and even the USA are not denying that which is as good as confirming it.

 

[DHTiling]

To tell the truth,, i have tried to ignore this as i think or thought it was just some media hype..

Maybe i need to look more into it..

 

[Dan]

I would and here's the best place. Julian Assange | Media | guardian.co.uk

It's serious stuff Dave. The USA could even introduce Laws to get Julian locked up for live. Bradley Manning is a soldier being detained on suspicion of leaking the Apache gun ship video which was filmed in 2007. Only today have the USA started to suggest that he is now suffering from Sycopathic Behaviour. They want him locked up in a mental institute for life.

All he wanted to do was fight for his country. But he eventually ended up working with the secret intelligence dept somewhere and had access to these videos and documents (the first ones "afgan war logs" not the "cables" which are a different set of leaks). He was shocked of the crimes being committed under instruction of his superiors, and he knew what was being reported "officially" in the press "that they were militants"!!!!! - So now he's in USA Physco hospital, or will be soon if he aint. You don't come out of those in the US. They're not like ours. And especially given the situation. Its the guantanamo way of dealing with american citizens that they don't want in the public domain.

Bradley knows to much. He can't be released now.

It's worth noting he's Welsh but served for the US as he lived there. Or something like that.

We will not be able to absorb the full implications of this even in a few years time. This is history being made right here. And good history for a change.

 

[DHTiling]

Yep..ok.. i will read that.. just not now.. all beeeered up.

 

[DHTiling]

book marked though

 

[Dan]

I think a lot of people, and it's proven in polls that the USA are accepting all this as truth a lot less than most parts of the world. I think of it as a learning curve we all need to learn. And it's not all a conspiracy thing like the usual thing.

I see it like this:-

When I was 4 I believed in santa, when I grew up I learnt that he didn't exist.
When I was 10 I believed in UFO's, when I grew up I learnt they didn't exist, but other life forms in the sense of cells and whatnot may exist somewhere but we're yet to find much, not even in water-ice.
When I was 18 I believed governments were corrupt, I never voted untill this year, but over the years learnt a little about politics (and even from discussion on here) and decided to vote. I voted for Conservatives as I believed them to be less corrupt than Labour.

Now I have the chance to actually learn the truth about this. And this will affect my view on news agencies, governments, wars, and even life!

This is probably one of the best things I've learnt.

It's just going to take a while for everybody to care enough to have a read and more importantly, a honest, well-informed view on it. And only then can you really comment, as we'd say on here. (But I'm not actually saying right now, mind).

 

[DHTiling]

When I was 4 I believed in santa, when I grew up I learnt that he didn't exist.

What you mean he don't exist.,.