DIY Tiler - 90 sq m of large format porcelaine tiling making me nervous!

[PJPro]

Hi!

I'm having a new extension built on my house. In fact, I've spent today putting in the CAT6 ethernet network (cables and conduit) and bashing through the old gable wall to join the two lofts. But that's another story.

My wife also ordered the 600x400mm porcelaine floor tiles (10mm thick) from Topps. I've got 90 sq metres coming by the end of the week. I am growing more than a little nervous about the laying of these tiles. I've got the porch, hall, dining room and kitchen floors downstairs to do, as well as the downstairs toliet (walls and floor). I've also got the floor and walls of the upstairs bathroom to do.

I'm going to be under pressure to be quick as the other trades are going to be waiting for me to finish before the 2nd fix carpenty and plumbing goes in.

I'm expecting the upstairs bathroom to be a special challenge. It will contain a quadrant shower enclosure with on wall mixer. The bath, basin and toilet will be placed against a low wet wall of about 1m high, containing all the pipework. The basin and toilet will be hung off this wall using Gerberit installation frames and a hidden cistern. The bath has wall mounted taps.

So. My worries. Well, the main one is making sure I'm doing things right.

The floor will be a moisture proof chipboard, topped with hardybacker. Do I need anything else? Should I also put down a waterproof membrane? How about the joints of the hardybacker? Do I need to use waterproof membrane on the walls/floor of the shower? How about the dry lined walls generally? Should I seal them with something like uPVA before tiling?

I've read with interest some of the banter over Sigma and Rubi dry cutters. The 3B or TX-700-N look good. But are these really going to do the business in the hands of a novice like me or should I be looking to buy a wet saw? I've used a (cheap) dry cutter before, many years ago, without much success.

I'm very worried about cutting the hole for the toilet flush plate. It's a fairly large affair (Gerberit - Kappa). How on earth am I going to cut such a big hole in a porcelaine floor tile? Using a jigsaw? mg_smile:

Clearly, I've got a lot of holes to drill. Are those Porsadrills really my best bet? I was shocked to see that each bit lasts long enough for two holes before it's ready for the bin. I do have a large drill press.....does this give me other options?

I'm fairly practical and can turn my hand to just about anything. I used to be a skilled labourer in my younger years and I am a qualified (but inexperienced) plumber. I'm hoping with a bit of good advice and encouragement I can pull this off. :hurray:

Grateful for any comments.

 

[PJPro]

imo the "N" isn't worth the extra, it just has a longer guide rail that can get in the way

On Trade Tiler the TX-700 is actually more than the TX-700-N. Should I still go for the standard?

 

[doug boardley]

On Trade Tiler the TX-700 is actually more than the TX-700-N. Should I still go for the standard?

If you have room to set it up, I don't see why not. I think (but I'll have to check) that TT may have the old version "N" model and the new version standard model

 

[PJPro]

OK. So I'm pulling together my shopping list.

RUBI TX-700 or RUBI TX-700-N - Still can't decide. Seems strange that the standard version is more expensive than the N version
Adhesive and Grout Whisk
Gorilla Tub - Medium 26 ltr
Gorilla Tub - Small 14 ltr
SBR Bonding/Admix agent - (Everbuild) - What's the coverage on this stuff? Do you use it for mixing the adhesive as well (rather than water)
3 mm Long leg Cross Spacers x 1000 - I want the same size tile spacing on floor and wall. Is 3 mm too small?
Rubi Stainless Steel Trowl 10 mm x 10 mm notches - the tile is 10 mm thick.....so 10 mm notch? How about the 10 mm rounded notch?
Rubi 160 mm Bucket trowel
Rubi soft rubber grouting trowel
Washboy - this seems expensive. Is it really worth it?
Rubi General Purpose Nippers
Stanley Chalk Line
Red Chalk
Rubi Professional Knee Pads

This little lot is gonna cost £500+ And I think it is far from complete! There's still the hole cutters, wet saw, etc

 

[doug boardley]

just checked you're right! altho the standard version is still my favourite.

 

[PJPro]

If you have room to set it up, I don't see why not. I think (but I'll have to check) that TT may have the old version "N" model and the new version standard model

I think I'd rather than the newer lighter version, if that is the case.

 

[PJPro]

just checked you're right! altho the standard version is still my favourite.

What do you think about the other items on my list?

 

[CJ CERAMICS]

by the time you have added adhesive and grouts, sealants and wet saw etc to your list assuming you can get a good price on the adhesive you are going to touching close on a grand if not more.......have you had any tilers give you a quote? bearing in mind the timescale in which it may take you added to what you will spend it may be worth enquiring.
chris

 

[hillhead]

Hi there,is there anyone who maybe can lend some tools in the area???
this would keep the costs down as long as you looked after the tools ! a lot of us carry too many tools at times.lol.
Good luck with all too.

 

[PJPro]

by the time you have added adhesive and grouts, sealants and wet saw etc to your list assuming you can get a good price on the adhesive you are going to touching close on a grand if not more.......have you had any tilers give you a quote? bearing in mind the timescale in which it may take you added to what you will spend it may be worth enquiring.
chris

I've already bought the adhesives and grout......based on the recommendation from Topps. It went very much along the lines of "just bung what we need on the bill". I think we've got fast-setting flexible adhesive and flexible, ivory grout.

 

[Ian]

OK. So I'm pulling together my shopping list.

RUBI TX-700 or RUBI TX-700-N - Still can't decide. Seems strange that the standard version is more expensive than the N version
Adhesive and Grout Whisk
Gorilla Tub - Medium 26 ltr
Gorilla Tub - Small 14 ltr
SBR Bonding/Admix agent - (Everbuild) - What's the coverage on this stuff? Do you use it for mixing the adhesive as well (rather than water)
3 mm Long leg Cross Spacers x 1000 - I want the same size tile spacing on floor and wall. Is 3 mm too small?
Rubi Stainless Steel Trowl 10 mm x 10 mm notches - the tile is 10 mm thick.....so 10 mm notch? How about the 10 mm rounded notch?
Rubi 160 mm Bucket trowel
Rubi soft rubber grouting trowel
Washboy - this seems expensive. Is it really worth it?
Rubi General Purpose Nippers
Stanley Chalk Line
Red Chalk
Rubi Professional Knee Pads

This little lot is gonna cost £500+ And I think it is far from complete! There's still the hole cutters, wet saw, etc

Dont need to mix the primer into the adhesive, just get single part flexible and mix with water (instructions will be on the bag). A 5 litre tub of primer mixes 3:1 water: primer (20 litres) and should easily cover 100m2. As for the wash boy, cross that off your list if this is likely to be your only job, just fill a bucket with water! Don't forget half a dozen sponges for grouting. Good luck!

 

[PJPro]

Thanks Brian. Any views on the tile spacing or size of the notches in the trowel?

 

[doug boardley]

10mm round notch trowel (solid bed trowel) will be needed for your floors.

 

[Ian]

3mm spacers are a nice average if you want the grout lines to be the same on the wall and the floor, I usually use 2mm on walls and 4mm on floors. Using a 10mm trowel is what i would use on the floor but a 6mm trowel for the walls is fine (both square not rounded notch) with a 6mm trowel you will get about 8m2 of tiling done per 20kg bag with a 10mm only 5m2. Maybe due to the size of the tile use the 10mm all over, but not necessary imo.

 

[doug boardley]

3mm spacers are a nice average if you want the grout lines to be the same on the wall and the floor, I usually use 2mm on walls and 4mm on floors. Using a 10mm trowel is what i would use on the floor but a 6mm trowel for the walls is fine (both square not rounded notch) with a 6mm trowel you will get about 8m2 of tiling done per 20kg bag with a 10mm only 5m2. Maybe due to the size of the tile use the 10mm all over, but not necessary imo.

why would you not use a solid bed trowel on a floor Brian??

 

[Ian]

why would you not use a solid bed trowel on a floor Brian??

Its not that I wouldn't use one doug, just that i don't! Sorry should have made that clearer

 

[PJPro]

So it looks like a round notched 10mm is OK for the floors. Is something smaller more appropriate for the walls? I believe I read somewhere that the notch size should reflect the thickness of the tile.

 

[Ian]

Your walls are brand new and should be straight and true, I only use a 10mm on the walls if ther are alot of ups and downs. The main aim is to get maximum coverage on the rear of the tile, no voids etc. Only my opinion though and like i said earlier due to the size of the tile a 10mm is a safe bet

 

[White Room]

I allways back skim the porcelain tiles to fill the profile on the back of the tile

 

[Sean fsy]

Maybe worth while putting a couple of expansion joints downstairs if you are going in and out of a few rooms.

 

[Alan.P]

Are you sure you want a rapid set adhesive ? you may be better with a standard set flexible, longer working pot life but obviously it will take longer to set, next day as a rule of thumb, 10mm minimum on the floor and back skim the back of the tile with the flat edge of the trowel, I would also use 10mm on the walls with your tiles, but that's personal choice, 8mm minimum in my humble opinion.

 

[PJPro]

Maybe worth while putting a couple of expansion joints downstairs if you are going in and out of a few rooms.

Yes, I wondered about that as downstairs will have wet underfloor heating. I was going to leave a small gap all the way round the bathroom floor and fill it with mastic. For downstairs, I was going to do the same, hiding the gap beheath the skirting board. I wanted to avoid an expansion joint across the width of the floor unless it was was sufficienty discrete not to notice.

Oh, the plumber and the spark started on site today. The pipe runs have started and I don't think it's gonna take him too long before the bathroom is ready for me to start. The delivery of the tiles has been confirmed for this Friday. But I still need to get the hardibacker, the water proof membrane (for round/under the shower) and the threshold thingys for the entrance to the bathroom and round the window. The tiles are mock travertine....I was going to get travertine but was put off by the high maintenance, sealing, etc. So I may put a strip of real travertine mosaic tiles around the wall. Then again, I may put in a strip of brushed stainless steel detail instead.

 

[PJPro]

Are you sure you want a rapid set adhesive ? you may be better with a standard set flexible, longer working pot life but obviously it will take longer to set, next day as a rule of thumb, 10mm minimum on the floor and back skim the back of the tile with the flat edge of the trowel, I would also use 10mm on the walls with your tiles, but that's personal choice, 8mm minimum in my humble opinion.

Well Topps only recommend the fast set with porcelaine for some reason, so that's what we've got.

I guess I don't want to use the rounded 10mm notched trowel on the wall......so can I get away with square on the walls and floor and just buy the one trowel?

 

[doug boardley]

a few ongoing photies would be nice as the job progresses, might be handy just in case we see something that can avoid disruption later down the line

 

[PJPro]

Incidentally, I'm not entirely familiar with forum etiquette. Can someone explain the use of the thanks button? I seem to have been thanked twice and yet I've only posed questions, not answered them.

 

[PJPro]

a few ongoing photies would be nice as the job progresses, might be handy just in case we see something that can avoid disruption later down the line

Hmm. OK. Actually, posts of that sort are something I do a lot. Take a gander at my useful posts pages....a collection of threads I have written on the What Hifi site which aim to help others with DIY electronics, woodwork and IT. You'll find the page here - What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - My Useful? Threads (Sorry if I have broken any house rules posting that link. I will remove it if I have).

 

[doug boardley]

Incidentally, I'm not entirely familiar with forum etiquette. Can someone explain the use of the thanks button? I seem to have been thanked twice and yet I've only posed questions, not answered them.

if you see the orange bar beneath a comment/post, there's a thumbs up icon with thanks written next to it, you just click that to thank someone for their post that you've found helpful/agree with

 

[PJPro]

OK. Got the hang of that! Sorry.....I've not seen that feature on any of the forums I frequent.

 

[doug boardley]

Hmm. OK. Actually, posts of that sort are something I do a lot. Take a gander at my useful posts pages....a collection of threads I have written on the What Hifi site which aim to help others with DIY electronics, woodwork and IT. You'll find the page here - What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - My Useful? Threads (Sorry if I have broken any house rules posting that link. I will remove it if I have).

I think within the spirit of a good thread, we can let it remain

 

[Sean fsy]

Are you going to lay all these tiles brick bond? Keep any cuts you have at all times as im sure you will be able to utilise them some where along the lines. Maybe if your looking for ideas for the bathroom you could ask for particular photos and maybe we could put some pictures up for you.

 

[PJPro]

Are you going to lay all these tiles brick bond? Keep any cuts you have at all times as im sure you will be able to utilise them some where along the lines. Maybe if your looking for ideas for the bathroom you could ask for particular photos and maybe we could put some pictures up for you.

Yep. Brick bond. I guess that makes it harder!

Always looking for ideas.....what sort of thing do you mean?