Limestone Discolouration - TilersForums.com

[J Sid]

no, wasn't deemed necessary by the builder, dont think there would be an issue if it was used

Deemed not necessary by builder, his trying to save money and when it all cracks he will blame the tiler as the tiler is the expert and should know what to do.
If its coming from screed it could take many weeks to dry out now. Tell the builder, due to his insistence to not use a uncoupling membrane he must now wait until floor is completely dry be you can seal it. He must also keep everyone off it or it will get stained.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Thanks to everyone that's posted on my thread, confident we have found the cause of the problem.
This forum is a brilliant tool for just these kinds of issues, cant thank you guys enough.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Deemed not necessary by builder, his trying to save money and when it all cracks he will blame the tiler as the tiler is the expert and should know what to do.
If its coming from screed it could take many weeks to dry out now. Tell the builder, due to his insistence to not use a uncoupling membrane he must now wait until floor is completely dry be you can seal it. He must also keep everyone off it or it will get stained.

agreed, often builders offer the customer the option, and depending on budget the customers have the final say.
Unsure of the details on this particular job, but you're right, ultimately it has fallen on my shoulders when shortcuts are taken.

 

[Just Rizzle]

dosnt matter how long you've been tiling you learn some thing new every day

 

[Fraser Tiling]

dosnt matter how long you've been tiling you learn some thing new every day

perhaps not every day, but yeah this game keeps you on your toes and bites you when you become complacent.
Just cant take anything for granted.

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Ultra Rapid is the slowest rapid I've used recently. That gives plenty of time, so no need for Standard Ultra at all in future..

 

[J Sid]

The builder didn't cover the floor up after you laid it so other trades could work over it by any chance?

 

[Fraser Tiling]

The builder didn't cover the floor up after you laid it so other trades could work over it by any chance?

dont know, it hasn't been mentioned, the grout and sealant were supplied by the tile suppliers, and there were two bags of extended set adhesive put with the supplied materials.
I thought the adhesive was sent by the tile suppliers, as the recommended adhesive, and i bought more of the same to complete the tiling, it was only after the tiles were fixed and the problem occurred that the customers said that the adhesive wasn't supplied, and was left over from a previous tiling job.
Had I known this, I would have used rapid set.
I have since spoken to the tile supplier and asked what adhesive they recommend for fixing, and they didnt specify a rapid set, they also had a very bad attitude and offered no help at all.
Ive got Ultra coming out to see the floor this week, so will see what they say.

 

[Bill]

poor quality stone too will not help.

 

[Just Rizzle]

you need to take a tile up then youll get your answer my bet is like I said wet screed no way would it be dry enough in the winter months to lay stone. looks like the screed is sweeting buckets my fear for you is that it may cause the whole floor to fail.

 

[hmtiling]

I've used Ultra es sp white on porous stone a few times without issue. as above, i think it's a wet screed

 

[Bill]

I've used Ultra es sp white on porous stone a few times without issue. as above, i think it's a wet screed

sweating screed and very porous stone - that is the problem - get a dense stone and sweating screed and it won't be a problem - again this is not a problem when fixed in S&C so maybe it is the modern adhesives?

 

[Fraser Tiling]

sweating screed and very porous stone - that is the problem - get a dense stone and sweating screed and it won't be a problem - again this is not a problem when fixed in S&C so maybe it is the modern adhesives?

hard to nail this down to one problem, think its a combination of two or three of the above, the screed seemed absolutely dry when i first looked at the job, and the builder that Ive done lots of work for before was happy that the screed was dry enough to tile, I didnt, and have never used a damp meter to test screeds, and when in doubt, use the old fashioned method of leaving a tile on the screed overnight, and check for even colour when lifted.
All tiles are still well adhered, after near three week of fixing with UFH being turned on for 7 days.
I am more swayed to believe that the extended set adhesive, perhaps being mixed slighty wetter than specified, to help ensure a consistent bed, and a porous tile sucking the moisture is a more likely explanation.
When Instamac were first contacted by my adhesive suppliers, about the use of extended set adhesives with light coloured stone, their first reaction was to say that rapid setting adhesive would be a better product, but on the front of their bags of extended set, its states "Suitable for natural stone".
If its not suitable for all natural stone, it should be stated on the bag.
From previous posts I was beginning to believe the problem may have been caused by a damp screed bleeding moisture, and still maybe a contributing factor, impossible to know the truth about mix percentages in screeds, drying times and conditions, when presented with what seems to be a ready floor.
The suppliers of the adhesive, a very reputable company, that I have worked very closely with for over twenty years, have only come across this problem once before with the same tile and adhesive, but was with wall tiles, so issues of wet screeds cant be blamed, and power clean was used and seemed to rectify the problem after a relatively short time.
These same guys, have been fantastic in trying to solve the issue, they didnt supply the stone, but have contacted the adhesive manufacturer, stone suppliers and liaised with me on solving the issue.
I personally think its a combination of slightly wetter mixed extended set adhesive, with a very porous poor batch of stone, with cold fixing temps.
Not having extensive experience of any of the above, i dont have the ability to identify the cause.
Very frustrating.
A straight forward job, fixed in the same fashion i would fix any other job, has gone very wrong.
I'm very conscientious, never have issues with my work, but am tired of being told
" stop worrying, its not your fault, you've done nothing wrong".
Need this problem rectified.

 

[Just Rizzle]

what ever will be will be .
for future piece of mind never take builders word I never do.
invest in a moisture meter and think about decoupling. the problem may rectify it self as you haven't grouted and sealed.
good luck

 

[Fraser Tiling]

what ever will be will be .
for future piece of mind never take builders word I never do.
invest in a moisture meter and think about decoupling. the problem may rectify it self as you haven't grouted and sealed.
good luck

recommend any moisture meters Ray?