Are short course providers diluting the tiling trade.?

[Dan]

Not read the whole thread here but I get the gist.


I think it's better to have short courses than non, as that would mean people are just doing a bit of plastering, think they're good at it, and assume they can tile now too, and then stick it on their business cards and wing it.

But I think it'd be even better if we had only apprenticeships, as that'd mean we have only A1 tilers being pushed out with experience.

The problem is when you speak to trainees - they don't have the time. Often just been made redundant or left the forces or whatever.

We have a good mix of tilers on here, and I have to say, I even know some good tilers that have done NO courses at all. And who'd have thought of that?!? Also know a few that have done all the training under the son and I wouldn't let them even do my cuts.

So swings and roundabouts. We'll not change the industry with a forum though. This needs to be done at the routes IMO. So perhaps TTA, the government, whoever.

We also have to remember that in 2007 and early 2008, people felt like they were millionaires with credit they shouldn't have been getting. So conservatories going up everywhere that need tiling, bathrooms being remodelled when only done 3 years ago. Etc etc etc - so we had it too good for a long time and I think if we're comparing now to then, we need to consider other factors like the housing price boom that we'll never ever see again in our lifetimes.

 

[Brian the Tile]

sorry makes my blood boil but theese courses arent new they have been about a long time,i have no problem with the poor people who waste there money on theese courses,but lets be honest here,how the hell can somebody thats been on a short course stand next to a time served person and get the same money with so little experience im sorry its wrong and the people that are coining it in kidding people that they can make big bucks after a few weeks are no better than dick turpin,lets get real and get everybody to realise that tiling is a trade and its not learnt on a short course,it takes years,im still learning after forty years at it

 

[charlie1]

After doing a 1,2,3... whatever week course, your only ever 1 mistake away from a complete disaster that could end your tiling cereer aspirations as they dont really prepair you for real world tiles and real world walls

 

[DHTiling]

The thread isn't about the trainee... or how they compare to a tiler of many many years... it is about training providers diluting what is a specialised trade.

You will know going back to your PITT days , how many peeps are churned through the doors , all being given false hope that they WILL make it in the real world.

Then these tile training providers then decide to start training all the other trades as well because they can get grants for trainees... the JOKE is in the little piece of paper they give at the end.. the QUALIFICATION :lol:.. oh FFS this is what is diluting the tiling trade , it isn't the many many peeps on the courses , it is the providers taking the mick and churning them out like sweeties off a production line..

I understand there is a requirement for fresh blood in any trade but this can be provided by colleges for school leavers or even adult learners , rather these mickey mouse providers saying 1 week etc will make you a tradesman.

Some authority needs to step in and stop this once and for all, take all training to the colleges and give them the proper training and a full C&G or NVQ3 minimum at the end of it and not a piece of paper not worth wiping your backside on.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

the answer is YES, they are diluting what is a specialised trade , but i also see that many things/standards/principles have been brushed to the side by the middle-men (the money for nothing guys, the ruiner's of our country's economy ) it all boils down to money in the end now, and that is the sad part of it,it's the same in other trades that are not protected ! Plastering for instance ( when i did my time you had to do everything that encompassed the trade, but now there are lads calling them-self's plasterers who only skimm-board,!!!& have been on courses FFS !!!so it's not just tiling,!! BUT the other forum that i 'am a member of for plastering they are very brutal in there treatment of course people when they come on the forum, they also dont tell peeps how to do there job ,unless they are other Tradesmen !!so perhaps we do give to much away and do ourselves out of work ?? perhaps we should talk tiling on a closed forum and only offer advice like contact so & so in your area, who will come and do the job for you ?? thats just my tuppence lol, wheres the vodka :smilewinkgrin:

 

[macten]

Well speaking as someone who originally got into this game through a 4 week course I would probably
say that on the whole it is a bad thing for all the reasons already mentioned BUT sometimes for the
right kind of person at a very good training center it can be a good thing.

Obviously there are very poor training centers and there are some excellent ones.
TCs that sell 'massive shortage of tilers, earn 40k+ I would put in the poor category.
TC's that cover only the basics, teach incorrect methods, materials and practices
are obviously a big enemy to us all and sit squarely in the poor category.

A good TC should teach you to BS and cover everything. I honestly believe if you are the right type of person and
attend a good TC then you can pretty much cover every aspect of wall and floor tiling, I did plumbing too and I spent a week on site
actually tiling.
Hand on heart after my course I could answer 90% of the questions on here often posed by DIYers and tilers alike and know
what was bad advice when I read it and the reason why.
Obviously all this knowledge is of little to no use without the practical experience of doing it day in, day out in the real world.
And herein lies the problem with TCs.
That's why after my course I did my own jobs, then family and then friends. I was quite prepared to make next to nothing for the
first 2 years and that was indeed the case but I learnt so much (the stuff no TC can teach, only an apprenticeship).

I know of only one person on my course that lasted more than 18 months.
And it was obvious to me the ones that wouldn't last 3 weeks let alone 3 months.
Some of these probably took work off a time served tiler, maybe he charged the same rate or just a little less
and maybe did a shocking job too. I'm sure alot of that happens and that makes me feel angry.

If you are the type of person who will naturally be good at tiling (attention to detail, proud, a good eye, competent DIYer,
common sense, willingness to learn) together with an excellent TC and when you leave you only take on jobs you are
confident at then there is no reason someone can't turn out a fantastic job and should be paid accordingly.

 

[Spud]

They should be renamed taster courses not training courses. It's impossible to equip someone for the real world working alone in 12 months let alone 2-6 weeks.

Of course they damage the industry but then so do many other factors, the fact is though, nothing will change. So it no longer bothers me, well it does in the sense it gives trades a bad name but I doesn't bother me in that it effects my business as it rarely does. There will always be a market where someone is willing to employ someone who hasn't got a clue what they are doing, either because they are shopping on price (you can do sweet fa about that) or because the client is un-educated in what they should be looking for, that is a different matter and where at all possible decent tradesmen should be doing their all to educate customers.

I see threads here all the time that complain they have lost out to someone who is cheaper and unequiped but if you want to stay in business you also have to sell. Being good on the tools counts for nothing if you can't sell, you'd be much better off going to work for another tiling firm or solely working for builders. If you lost out to someone else then you didn't do a good enough job in educating the customer as why you're a safe bet and why you have the skills needed and the reasons you are more expensive.

It's no good blaming these courses, you just have to stay one step ahead. You have to find ways of making yourself more attractive, added value. I'm always amazed at how many of you guys don't get involved in the design and supply of tiles. There are tons of customer who need help with this and who better to help them than someone who has handled thousands of square meters of tiles in all shapes and styles. If a customer is faced with two tilers, one who says 'you pick and i'll stick 'em' or another who says 'i'll help you every step of the way' who do you think is more attractive? You all deal with tile shops for your adhesives so you can purchase tiles at better rates than your customers can, you can even supply them cheaper than if they bought direct and still make a profit on them to cover your time designing and supplying.

You may not want to get involved and just want to turn up, do your day and walk away. That's fine but unless you do everything you can to further your business and make yourself stand out from these 2 week coursers than you really can't complain IMO. How is the client suppose to know the diffrence unless you blow the competition out of the water and make them look stupid?

Excellent Post Rob