Do tilers give away too much hard earned information?

[WetSaw]

We are all constantly learning aren't we?

 

[One Day]

We are all constantly learning aren't we?

The best of us are. Unfortunately some peeps think they've learnt it all already...

 

[Time's Ran Out]

We are all constantly learning aren't we?

Yes but is it right to charge when you don't have the skill set to do the job of a professional?

 

[WetSaw]

My point was that regardless of your experience or capabilities at some point you are doing something for the first time.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

My point was that regardless of your experience or capabilities at some point you are doing something for the first time.

I agree and not having a go at your input, just expressing an opinion that you should have gained the relevant experience before you charge for doing something for the first time.
Someone that has the title professional tiler shouldn't be asking what adhesive to use or asking how much to charge for a kitchen splash back. But that as I say is my opinion.
And to elaborate, when I use 'you' it could have been 'one' - it was not a reference to any particular post.
Don't want to upset anyone else.

 

[Tile Shop]

Soory guys... I have very little time for DIYers or these Micky mouse courses..

Become a tiler in a week? I think not!
Go on YouTube tile walls and floor BS !

If the courses are so "Mickey Mouse", how does someone get on the tiling ladder? Are you saying that because I didn't do a 2 year NVQ college course when I was younger, that ship has sailed?

I agree that tiling can be learnt on Youtube. But for some, a one or two week course won't make a tiler, but is the only option to begin with. In my case I'm also trying to save a wedge for equipment and to cover my outgoings for when I go out to do free labouring but eventually that money will run out and I'll need a wage coming in. I know I won't be a pro over night. It will take years til i'm charging pro rates. But I have to start somewhere and will need to start earning soon. Covering my expenses and doing a job I'll be happy with will suit me fine. But if a course isn't the way to get into tiling, then how?

 

[bcd-87]

If the courses are so "Mickey Mouse", how does someone get on the tiling ladder? Are you saying that because I didn't do a 2 year NVQ college course when I was younger, that ship has sailed?

I agree that tiling can be learnt on Youtube. But for some, a one or two week course won't make a tiler, but is the only option to begin with. In my case I'm also trying to save a wedge for equipment and to cover my outgoings for when I go out to do free labouring but eventually that money will run out and I'll need a wage coming in. I know I won't be a pro over night. It will take years til i'm charging pro rates. But I have to start somewhere and will need to start earning soon. Covering my expenses and doing a job I'll be happy with will suit me fine. But if a course isn't the way to get into tiling, then how?

Fair play to you, I understand we all started somewhere.
I have met loads of tilers and everyone has a different experience of the early days.
They overpriced courses that encourages inexperienced tilers to set up businesses and go out and tile are the ones I have no time for.

I'm sure most of them are very good and turn out some great tilers.

If my earlier post has offened anyone I apologise that was not my intention.

The only thing that matters is the quality of our work not where we came form or how we came up the ranks.

Have a great day

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The experience is gained doing an apprenticeship, working alongside time served Tilers and learning your trade.
Taster courses are great if you want to see if it's to be something you could enjoy doing on an ongoing basis and have the money to pay for the chance.
When I joined this forum 7 years ago it was to put something back into my trade by helping the diyer to get the correct information required to make a half decent job. There are very few of my 9000+ posts helping anyone who has intentions of getting paid for taking work away from a skilled tradesman.
Just my take on this thread.

 

[Tile Shop]

Fair play to you, I understand we all started somewhere.
I have met loads of tilers and everyone has a different experience of the early days.
They overpriced courses that encourages inexperienced tilers to set up businesses and go out and tile are the ones I have no time for.

I'm sure most of them are very good and turn out some great tilers.

If my earlier post has offened anyone I apologise that was not my intention.

The only thing that matters is the quality of our work not where we came form or how we came up the ranks.

Have a great day

The experience is gained doing an apprenticeship, working alongside time served Tilers and learning your trade.
Taster courses are great if you want to see if it's to be something you could enjoy doing on an ongoing basis and have the money to pay for the chance.
When I joined this forum 7 years ago it was to put something back into my trade by helping the diyer to get the correct information required to make a half decent job. There are very few of my 9000+ posts helping anyone who has intentions of getting paid for taking work away from a skilled tradesman.
Just my take on this thread.

I appreciate your reply Ben and no offence taken.

Safe to say i'm not one of these that thinks a course will give me everything. And the rest of the money I'm saving is to also cover me going out an labouring for one of the experienced local pro's (he's just waiting for me to bite the bullet, but not quite ready yet). I guess some people think they can go it alone from day one but the come unstuck when they realise its not going to be well paid to start with. I can fully accept that I'm probably going to make a heavy loss in the first 2-3 years. but at least i'll be losing money with a smile on my face and have the rewards of being successful as a thing to look forward to in the distant future. Its motivational and something to aim for.

At the end of the day, if no-one teaches, no-one learns. A pro tiler can come on here and give as much information as he likes. But DIYers reading will still be at a heavy disadvantage to you guys, as they're lacking the practical skills and hands-on experience to put the theory into practice.

 

[Italy]

I, after years of apprenticeship. and years of tiler. (Others call me tiler).
I would need. everyday . of a course.
everyday. a novelty. grunding.new new adhesive. new tile.
when it seems. That I . learned to use. arrives new brand. and come back again.
therefore. for me . need a course every day.

 

[Italy]

I remember many years ago, about 30 odd years ago roughly, we had an Italian company send over some tilers to do some displays in our showroom. 2 guys turned up and erected a large blind/sheet infront of the display before commencing their work. We asked why and they told us that tiling was an art and they were not prepared to show anyone how they fixed the tiles as it was a secret and they did not want people to learn how it was done. How different it is now! Are tilers telling too many people how to DIY? Or is it a being helpful thing us British do?

Keeping it secret was what killed the terrazzo industry. At one point in time terrazzo could have taken over the world (well the UK anyway) but they did exactly as you said they covered it up and did not show anyone. This meant that there was a lot of work for a hand full of men and thing were good for a few years. Bookings 6 months in advance 8 months 10 months but there is a limit to how long people can wait before they start looking for an alternative (Tiling). The success of terrazzo combined with the greed of people that want to keep it all for themselves and not pass on the skills to anyone spelt the beginning of the end.

Yes I remember the terrazzo guys well. All very mysterious.

We live in a different age these days though and there are no secrets. If you want to know how to do something then Google it, watch a You Tube clip.....It only shows you how to do it though....You still have to do the work.

i have lost track of how many people come here to the forum and collect all the info they require before going away to do their own bathroom etc , Only for them to return and say how hard it was or even ask for a Tiler as its taking them too long.

As a child I remember my Grandad taking me to a new store...they were called DIY shops. Big K if I recall correctly. I guess this was the big push forward into DIY but all over the world its the same.
As for being the British thing to do, I dont think so.

the reason. antonio that is here. and this.
Italian tiler. that I know. They are still so.
jealous. and of course envious. old ones. better not to talk.

 

[MTiler]

The experience is gained doing an apprenticeship, working alongside time served Tilers and learning your trade.
Taster courses are great if you want to see if it's to be something you could enjoy doing on an ongoing basis and have the money to pay for the chance.
When I joined this forum 7 years ago it was to put something back into my trade by helping the diyer to get the correct information required to make a half decent job. There are very few of my 9000+ posts helping anyone who has intentions of getting paid for taking work away from a skilled tradesman.
Just my take on this thread.

In an ideal world we'll all do apprenticeships and work alongside so called 'time served' Tilers. But life aint like that especially when youre made redundant in your 40s and have to retrain to pay the mortgage and start earning you, dont have the luxury of being able to do an apprenticeship etc.
My first job was working with another tiler who ripped me off and never payed me. So I worked on my own after that.

Its not how youve learnt the trade, its down to what the individual gets out of it and what they do with it. Its down to the attitude of the individual.

 

[Dan]

We all know some very good tilers on here that have had no formal training at all. And we know some that are City and Guilds from back in the day and would still need to call an adhesive manufacturer when a new product comes out that they have had specified for a job they're doing.

The key is, making sure if you are charging to do a professional job, you give one.

If it takes you 4 weeks to do what it takes an experienced guy to do in 1, then just make sure you're not charging for 4 weeks, else you've ripped the customer off.

But we all started somewhere eh.

 

[Stef]

I went on Ray's porcel-thin course a couple of years ago & met Phil Hobson there.
I asked him why he still came on courses as he has probably forgotten more about tiling than a lot of tilers will ever know, he told me that the day he stops doing courses like that is the day he's left behind as the tiling trade is evolving & changing.
For a guy that's been in the trade 40+ years to tell you that then that's when you realise that you have to keep pushing yourself to be the best you can.

 

[bcd-87]

My old mentor retired after 45 years of tiling, back in he day he did a apprenticeship as did I under his guidance..

It's a tried and tested..

I understand things have changed and what's available now wasn't back in the day..

Product knowledge is key nowadays as is a decent skill set.. Both of which are gained over time and working with experienced tilers.

I'd be happy to give anyone a chance fast track course or apprenticeship I'm not racist