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Discuss External mitre profiling tool in the UK Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.

C

Concrete guy

i have vacuum brazed drills for dry and wet use for a variable speed grinder. i prefer diamant drills in wet use but sometimes i don´t have my hole drilling machine by me. so the vacuum brazed works perfekt in marble and granit but on porcelain stoneware it works not smooth and if you don´t use it wet theres no long life. so i will try your tool, cause i can use it for natural stone by the way. but i personaly would prefer a big coating of diamant, only wet use and adjustable rings when shape is smaller.


in this video on 6.28min you see the bullnose tool on porcelain stoneware.
Lastre grande formato - Movimentazione e Taglio - - YouTube

The problem with diamant (sintered or metal bonded diamond) is as the tool wears by design the shape of the profile changes.

The metal section is designed to wear away to expose the diamond and keep the tool sharp, it's exactly how cutting blades work and as you know they wear.

So vacuum brazed is a better product for a profile tool that has to retain it's shape permanently.

As you point out, it will work wet or dry. We would expect an extended life span if used wet. What is yet to be determined is if the finish is improved hen used wet vs dry.

The monolit tool is vacuum brazed and interestingly they are using it at high speed on a standard grinder.
 
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C

Concrete guy

Having a had a chat with the engineers at the factory we've decided to make these profilers to a 30/45# grit which will cope far better cutting porcelain dry.

Vacuum brazed tools can withstand very high temperatures, so the target speed for these tools will be anywhere between 4500 - 12000 rpm. That means they can be used on a regular angle grinder.

There's no set target speed as such as the material (rather than the tool itself) will determine the most appropriate speed.

So on a new job, with a new tile, just run it on an off cut first to see how it's cutting and if a speed adjustment is required.

We have some other stock on it's way in 10-12 days times and these profilers will ship with them so we should have these available in less than 3 weeks time.
 
C

Concrete guy

The Profilers arrived today.

MitreProfile-1.jpg


But, (there's always a but isn't there!) There is a small inexpensive but very important piece missing - the guide washer in between the cutting head and the plastic guide. This will run along the 1mm good edge of the work piece and stop the tool cutting too deep.

I'm getting some run up so they can be fitted.

Of course the tool could still be used by simply clamping a batten to the tile and using the plastic guide as a depth stop as the appropriate size.

I'd prefer to have the complete and correct before any go out though.

Overall I'm pretty happy with how they've come out from an idea only a few weeks ago.

I'll update as soon as I have a solution for the depth stop and will then be able to send the first ones out.
 
C

Concrete guy

Update. All the modified parts arrived for the tools yesterday. I assembled three and all looks good. However I can't send anything out without a good test.

So we ran one of the first today on a regular grinder and on a speed variable dry flex. So far with a 10mm Limestone tile and 10mm Marble tile.

It cut perfectly, in limestone and marble, dry (at slow and fast speeds) right down to the last 1mm then there was breakout and chipping on the edge.

Basically I've had the guide washer made 1mm too small so it allows the cutting head to cut very slightly too deep.

So the good news is, it works! The bad news is, I need another set of guide washers run up before I can send the first ones out.

I've also yet to run it on Porcelain and we've yet to try it wet. Dry we had it running at full speed on a dry flex machine on the marble and the finish was good.

So sorry, there's a further delay, but I'll update once the next batch of washers arrive.
 
C

Concrete guy

I've ordered some more washers at a variety of sizes in 0.25mm steps so I can test a couple of these and get them spot on.

It's no good sending them out not right, it would cause all sorts of grief at both ends.

I guess it was a lot to hope it would come out perfect from the word go, but it's frustrating that a single inexpensive piece is stopping us getting them out.

It's a little bit of trial and error now until we get the perfect washer size, then it's all go.
 
C

Concrete guy

We had some progress today, I was starting to wonder if Stone Masons took the entire month of January off!

We tried the tool today with various washer sizes and it was plainly obvious when we hit the right one, it just worked as we hoped.

So today the mitre tool was run using a variable speed Matika grinder, dry, on 10mm thick marble, granite and Porcelain and a slightly thinner sample of Silestone quartz.

I brought the results home but it's too dark now to get decent close up images so I'll photograph over the weekend and you'll get an idea what finish this creates.

We learnt the following today.

Material determines the speed of cut rather than tool design.

These (materials) all cut dry, and as such we didn't bother with a wet test, on the grounds that if it works dry it will simply be faster and more controllable wet - so we don't need to test it.

This tool is not suitable for use on an angle grinder (circa 10,000 rpm) you simply can't control it. Particularly on porcelain, it "skips" during cutting. It will grind about 80% of the mitre fine, but once you get down to the detail the speed combined with the aggressive nature of the cutting head creates breakout and you end up with an untidy mitre.

The porcelain was by far the most difficult product for the tool to deal with, The marble and quartz it sailed through, at pretty much any speed dry.

We tried a piece of granite, it happened to be Blue Pearl, with a coarse grained granite of that nature you needed to be slow to stop fracturing of the thin mitre edge.

Back to the porcelain, we didn't have any to hand to I popped down to the local CTD and bought a sample tile that was described as 10mm polished Porcelain suitable for walls and floors. This is Grade 4/5 and pretty dense. I figured it's unlikely you'll be mitring grade 5 flooring porcelain, it's more likely to be wall stuff but we needed to test this on some pretty dense product to see how it worked.

After a few runs it was obvious that we needed to be running speed 1 (the slowest) on the machine dry. Surprisingly this didn't slow the cutting down a great deal as the cutting head spent 100% of the time in contact with the tile surface rather than skipping about and ground it away evenly and neatly. I was timing what we were doing and I'd estimate it's going to take around 3 to 5 minutes to mitre a 300mm porcelain edge to a finish.

Surprise number 2 was the finish of the entire mitre was smooth, almost as if it had been finished with some emery paper and all smoothed off - not a sharp edge in sight. That wasn't something I'd even thought about.

We now need to run up a batch of the correct size washers, I'll get that done by a small precision engineering company in Norfolk next week at which point the first pieces will be available.

So I'm happy it works as intended but I'm a little disappointed it's not going to work on a grinder as that would open up the market tremendously.

I could modify the tool by using a less coarse grade of diamond allowing it run faster, that would create a few issues - heat and lifespan. So the compromise is it's got to be speed variable and unlikely that anything over 5,000 rpm is going to produce anything that would be considered acceptable results.

I'll add images over the weekend of cut edges so you get an idea what it can do.
 

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