Help ? I need an independant assessor Page: 2

[silver]

Thanks Dan.
I am not a member of the Tilers Forum Arms .....
So will not be able to update it accordingly...
Can I please become a member Please email me so I can get your reply.
Thank you for your help with this.

 

[silver]

I have access Dan...sorry to have asked that last question !

 

[Dan]

Didn't you get the notification? I'd added you already before moving it. You're in the Arms.

Bars over there, toilets over there, she's the local bike, avoid on less than 8 pints, pool table is winner stays on and they get really fussy about that so don't whack a quid down thinking you and your mate can play without first owning the table by way of win.

Other than that no rules. Just don't swear tooooo much.

 

[Ajax123]

Do not admit liability, speak to your ow PL insurers if you have one. Try Neil Beningfield of Beningfield associates. I know he has helped a few tilers on here before and is really good at this type of thing. Neil Beningfield I also know him personally so am happy to recommend him. Might be more cost effective and probably better quality litigation advice than the TTA. He is also a member of the panel of exert witnesses so is used to dealing with court type stuff.

 

[silver]

LOL ! thanks Dan ... think I will like this Pub !!

Thanks for that Alan,
I spoke with my Liability Insurance which is AXA via Gothic Insurance brokers. Also DAS via my home and contents policy. Whilst they did give me advice and positive conversation. They did not confirm if either of my policy/s would cover this ?.....
I have third party Liability insurance with my business.... which has been the same since day one of me starting the business Dec 2006.
To cover me for accidental damage in customers homes, cover of indemnity £1000,000
I was under the impression this is all I would need for my business ... in the event of me having an accident and causing damage ...(non to date)
As I stand by my work quality I would never have envisaged this situation.

The DAS advisor asked me if I had legal expenses cover .....
I guess this is something I have not included in my AXA liability policy ?

I am a little confused and albeit perhaps nieave here ..If I had insurance that covered what I am seeing as the problem (What lies behind the plaster boarded wall done before my arrival ....and a heavy handed radiator installation done after my departure)....... and the plumber expects me to claim on it as a tiling issue ..... ?.That's not including the bath sinking ....
I cant see other than I would apparently have insurance to cover my customers against "dodgy work" ...someone elses dodgy work ?..... who I may happen to work adjacent on a job with.
Their work that my work has gone over ....as its impossible to see behind the plasterboard they had put on and impossible to stand over someone drilling into my tiling afterwards....

pics
After the problem arose and I was contacted I referred to my before / after pics.... I have blown up this second pic and can see no actual fixings holding this frame in place .....Crikey !! and have come to the conclusion that perhaps the pipe work was aiding rigidity when I boarded the front of it. .......hence it never moved.
Valve slot was at the request of the plumber instead of three separate holes ...to help should a valve issue arise.
This is where they joined new studding / board to the existing wall to extend it ...yep showing normal screws used in their boarding..... and original D&D tiles some 30 years ago !!..... I boarded the "shower side" using drywall screws this illustrates two individuals work IMO... nothing moved during me doing this.

The section was tanked .... I tank every single bathroom I do


The crack in my tiling has appeared on this vertical plaster board to existing wall join.
My feeling having now looked at the pics again and again is ...that this frame is not actually totally secure ... and after fixing the shower screen through tiling close but not onto this end stud ..... the weight in conjunction to use of the screen has "flexed / moved" this frame sufficient to cause this crack ... it wouldn't take much.
There was certainly no crack when I left for the plumber to make their final installation of the new suite.

To try and simulate the problem .....If a car was taken into a body shop already primed to spray from elsewhere.....and all looked right to the guy who was finish spraying it ...and it was sprayed accordingly and correctly.....and then rust popped through two months later.
Who would be approached ....the finisher ? ... or the guy who prepped it under the primer and primed it ?
If this makes sense ??

I will hold that contact for Neil and will be giving him a call. Thanks again Alan.
.
Sorry for the very long post .... its already grinding on me.

 

[White Room]

You should try and overboard the existing wall to stud, to take up any variation of movement between the different surfaces.

 

[silver]

Thanks Whitebeam
Okay ... I see what you are saying....and believe me ...its logged in .....I appreciate your comment....exactly as per floor substrates con > timber etc....this whole matter has made me question everything ...twice .. .....however, if I am right ...a correctly and rigidly fixed frame shouldn't actually move .... I understand you are referring to expansion and contraction ...they are both plasterboard studded walls.... I don't believe I am looking at an expansion issue...but stand to be corrected......I accept one has come after the other.....but there should be no movement of the frame away from the wall it is intended to be fixed to.... and I think this is whats happened.
because..........
I am now looking at the screw locations on their board/s .... and then the similar frame work on the front shower wall....the front frame.
If they haven't screwed this part of the frame (two uprights) sufficiently to the existing wall surface/s behind their plasterboard .....and my guess now is they haven't as they would need to drill through the old tiles.... ... the corner one especially...
Then I believe theres a huge potential for it to flex at the corner ....sufficient to crack the tiles in the manner I am seeing

The crack has not opened like you would expect from expansion it has cracked very very slightly concave when you catch the light on it, looking face on from the front ....as if the corner where the screen is has been pulled / flexed into the bathroom ...which for me stacks up.... or do I have it wrong ?

 

[andy8758]

Hi Silver, sorry to hear about your woes. But, there is a salutary lesson here for all of us.

Professional problems happen from time to time, no matter how thorough and skilled you are in your work. When the rubbish hits the fan, you will find the world a very lonely place. You know you are in the right. You know you did a good job. But the criticism hits you to the core, you feel suddenly very insecure, you struggle to concentrate on anything else whilst you have that problem. It will affect you, your partner, and your family life. It can become an increasing problem, as you are liable to make more mistakes when worried about the outcome, and tend to snap at family and friends over any little problem.

You need 2 things here.

First off you need a friend who has faced up to problems like this and got through it. A friend you can talk to about the problem, and give you objective support. This forum can provide you with that support. Especially those guys who have been in the trade for a very long time. You have done the right thing posting this here (and thank you Dan for bringing it to the Tilers Arms to keep it private).

Second you need a powerful sponsor - in this case the TTA is something you, me and everyone else here in the tiling business should subscribe to. They are the respected, professional face of the tiling trade. You may have to pay for the additional help (independent assessor) but the collective knowledge and experience such an organisation can maintain will help many of us reduce the times that such problems arise.

Maybe we need to join if not already members. The next alleged tiling problem could be mine.

And finally for Silver. Good luck. Keep us posted. We are rooting for you.

 

[silver]

Hi Andy,
Your words could not be more spot on mate ... and alone make re assuring reading Thank you.....especially from a personal view. I am lucky to already have the support of a good partner....she knows after watching me work in our home and after her talking to my past customers who have become friends, how I will not take kindly to a slant on my work.
I am open and honest as the days long... I complete every job as if it is in my own home and it must be right in my mind to complete before I start it ( I walk away from many) and right for me before I pass it back to the customer. This ethic has never failed me to date. I am not young in years I am 52 and I take great pride in what I do. Hence the before and after pics ...apart from helping against those "who try to ask for more" I have had only one case in 9 years with a ding in a tap spout the lady of the house brought to my attention ...after asking if she would accept what my before and after pics revealed....I checked them on the Pc and could blow them up.....on my pics the ding was there with the customer stood beside me with only me the customer and my camera in the kitchen ... I had not even brought in my floor and worktop / unit covers. They had taken off the tiles ....but had "not even caught the spout when doing it" ....so ....I sent theme a blown up copy by email .....It was a very quiet day all the next day when I finished the job....To say the husband was embarrassed is an understatement.
Yes you are right sleepless nights have been involved. I do however come back to the same conclusions and thinking. In my mind the rad wall was good to tile and in good faith I took it that the plumbers had attached the frame correctly to avoid any future movement.

I am obviously openly willing for it to proved otherwise. I realise to do this tiles will have to be removed. I will stand by what this reveals and accept only responsibility for any error in my work or judgement. ....and cover the cost and correction naturally.
I have taken many hours of searching my mind and I do believe I may have a way to work with this. The customer being happy with me and my work is paramount from every angle .... I have never and I mean never had a complaint before my involvement with this plumbing company. Three jobs ... three sets of problems I will need to speak to the customer with my suggestion of course before I reply to their insurance.
I am out today. But later will lay the basics of my potential approach to this for you all to see. I would welcome any comments. Good or bad.
I am thoroughly grateful for the support members have shown so far. It is very re assuring and is a massive help .....as Andy says .....it does make you question yourself after the event ... and does mess with your head.
We all learn on every job .... if I have made a mistake I will sort it. I am not a builder. So instead of trying to prove with building "logic"what the frame should have been done like I aim to remove tiles and see what lies behind. What cant speak cant lie. Will post more later today.
Thanks guys.

 

[silver]

Hi Doug ... I have looked back at my other pics .....overboarding the two sections would not have been possible due to the door frame / hinges etc....
It did actually cross my mind at the time ... and I did consider crack mat ...perhaps this may have helped ? ..I should have mentioned this immediately yesterday ... but to be honest it was late and my head was a tad scrambled with it all....however, at the starting point I stuck with the belief that the frame should not move and all will be well. If it gets to the point of me removing my tiles to remove their plaster board to reveal their "new frame" and its actual fixings. If its secured ... Its my fault ... if there is zero fixings I don't feel it is correct for me to accept responsibility.