Please help, I made a screw up...

[tileboy]

Hi guys...

I'm hoping someone can shed light on my little screw up. Right so been busy on a job for a whole heap of days...Yeah ok so I'm slow, I must be the slowest tiler on planet earth but I'm bloody neat so it's ok!!! I think it may have something to do with my training because I just don't seem to be able to tile any faster no matter what I do...

The problem slapped me in the face today...Please look at Picture A. This is the door frame around which I have tiled. The tiles are 150mm x 600mm. I tiled from the left side of the room around the top of the door (follow the red arrows) up to the tile with the red "X" on it. Then I carried on from the other side of the room till I met back to that same point. The first three tiles are 300mm x 600mm then a border right around the room then the 150mm x 600mm to the roof. The first three tiles are on the same datum line ALL AROUND THE ROOM, so it makes NO SENSE that what I'm about to explain happened.

The first three tiles from the floor up (as I said) are running the same datum line, they're PERFECTLY level so if I was to switch on my laser light and stream a line (which I did) on the TOP EDGE of the first three tiles across the room then you will see that right around the entire bathroom the line follows perfectly which means that the top edge of the first three are at exactly the same level right around the room.

Spacers are 3mm...

On top of the edge of the first three tiles comes a 3mm spacer, then a border. On top of the border comes another 3mm spacer then the 150mm x 600mm starts. So safe to say I have the same level right across the room.

Now look at picture B. See the red X ? Well, it was there that I tiled up to then stopped. I carried on tiling around the other side of the room till I got back to that point. I tiled from the floor up to where the red X is, because everything is level (I made it so) there's no reason why the tile directly under the red X should not fit. It should fit right? Thats what I though, because all my lines asre straight. Everything is perfectly level, so says my laser and my spirit level. The truth, however, is that when I reached the point of inserting the tile under the red X it didn't fit and by a WHOLE BUNCH. It was out by something like 15mm maybe more. WOW, I have NO IDEA how that happened. Everything else in the room is in proportion and fits...This one tile now suddenly is out and by a bloody long margin too!!! So, obviously I couldn't rearrange the whole room cuz the tiles are fixed now so the only logical answer was to cut the 15mm or what ever it was off of the top of the tile and fix it in there anyway. It's such a little actually off the whole tile that if you stand in front of it you can barely notice that the tile isn't the same size as the others. If you look very close, or if you have a very good eye you will pick it up but I can almost guarentee you the owner won't spot what has happened.

Still with picture B, now that I've fixed that tile in anyway....turns out that to the tope right of the room close to the roof it has somehow thrown my grout lines out by that 15mm. On pic B see the red circles? Notice how they don't align AT ALL!!! In fact, rather look at picture C....It gives a closer view of how the lines are thrown out now in relation to the red X tile. Look at the lines going down the wall and you'll see eventually (after 3 or so tiles) the lines restore themselves and all is as it should be.

I am SO CONFUSED as to how and why this happened. I did everything by the book....Now, you don't notice the cut tile in the middle of the lot but by the roof there's a clear mismatch....I'm hoping to GOD that the owner doesn't notice, there's alot of the same colour in the room and it's very hard to spot mistakes cuz everything sort of swims into each other. Where the roof is, the builder said I should leave a small gap as he is going to install a sizeable cornice there so hence the gap between the last tile and the roof. In pic C, where the mosaic strip is you will notice that there is a clear mismatch between the tile egde and the mosaic strip (this is to be covered by the cornice so that will disappear...

PLEASE can one of you bright lads explain WTF went wrong. I susupect its something I did when I tiled around the door. You know when you tile around a window and the lines don't match up when you get around the window? I think it's maybe that....but I don't know what to call it firstly and I have even less of an idea of how to explain my way out of this. If she doesn't notice then cool but between her, the builder and the architect someone is gonna see it. I have to be able to explain what went wrong and kinda in a way that makes it sound as if it aint really my fault. Ha ha...I'm not a chance taker and I feel worse than bad for it having turned out this way but it's kind of way too late to do anything about it so I had to improvise.

Then, one thing I do feel very happy about is the shower tray which I did using Travertine mosaics. The owner had no idea really what she wanted so I used my initiative and came up with something on my own. Please refer to picture D to see what I ended up doing with the shower floor, I think it looks lovely....Please comment if you can, but be nice please cuz I'm feeling a bit like a tiler's *** today.

In advance lads, thank you VERY MUCH for any help....last thought would be just to ask (again) if anyone can suggest something to help me explain my way out of this one!!!

Many many thanks....
Tileboy )

 

[DHTiling]

Looks like you have lost your level over the door....

Personally i would pull that bit off and re-do it...looks well out of line...

You have the correct datum at the botton half but you can see you have dropped 15mm across the door...

In thoery you should have done that side all in one go, so you know you are gunna meet up....

experiance will teach you that...coz once you make a mistake like that , you won't make it again...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[CDS]

Cor blimey matey, this is a bit of an epic... I'm on my second cup of tea!!


Suggest you:

1. Check that your spirit level is accurate (put it on the wall, level it, mark a line at both ends, turn the level around, match up one line, level it and mark again – how far apart are the 2 lines?)
2. Check that the door frame is true – looks like you've lost it over the top of the door frame? But hard to be sure from the pics. Have you followed the top of the door assuming its level?
3. Run a spirit level from a grout line on the far left hand wall, across the door and line it up against grout lines either side of your vertical border. Which one is level? To the left or right of the border?
4. Repeat 2) at different heights across the door – including across the top of the door.
   

If it lines up to the right of your border then you've def lost it over the door frame - Redo this bit and hopefully you've got a top job!!


Hope this helps

 

[tileboy]

Hi Dave....I can't pull it off mate cuz if you look at picture A, thats where the lines are coming from across to the other side of the room. I cannot possibly see how I lost 15mm-ish from the left side of the room to the right side over the door when everything was and still is level!!! If I had to hack the tiles from the left of the door off down to the border and start again, I'd get exactly the same result....Think about it? The first three tiles are set....level. The borders are level. Above that up to the roof everything is level and the grout lines are spaced 3mm as everywhere else. If I really dropped 15mm-ish over the door then somewhere else too I'd have massive grout line pinching or expanding but I don't, it's only that one tile and all grout lines remain 3mm....It makes no sense!!!

 

[DHTiling]

All i can say is...you have lost your level somewhere...?


Are the tiles on the righthnd side of the door...bottom half level with the left side of the door....use a level not the laser...

You can not loose 15mm in that short a run without bieng out on the left or right...

i can see where you have had to cut the tile t fit and where you tile start to run out...

So looking at it...it is where the left comes across level at the doorhead, then the remaining tilies do not fit....so, the right side must be out compared to the left...

Cut a length of straight 2x1 the length of that wall where the door is,and line it up with the joints a half way then put a level on it...

you have to be out sonewhere....

 

[Andy Tiler]

hi tile boy it looks to me that you have some smaller tiles there.?? 2nd picture 4th one down looks well small ill have another look:yikes:

 

[Andy Tiler]

do you see where i mean i think them tiles r smaller 4th down from top i think thats ur problem:dizzy2:

 

[tileboy]

CDS....Thanks for the reply mate!!! Tea? Sounds good....milk 2 sugars thanks, LOL!!!

Well, both my levels are brand new mate so they should be fine. Then, I didn't use the top of the door frame as reference or assumed it's level as you said. I used the level created by the tiles following on from the left hand wall.

I'm only 90% sure of what you're saying here. Thing is that I can't redo that section only because I'd have to drop the entire level of the room down 15mm from the right hand side OR pick up the left hand side of the room 15mm which means I'm left with a sliver underneath the first three tiles from the floor up (on the left of the door) which I can't do because the architect design asks from three tiles upto the border, not three including a sliver...

It's gonna have to stay that way I'm afraid!!! I'm just dreading having to explain to the client why it is that way!!!

How do I avoid this happening again? I have another bathroom in the same house t do in exactly the same tiling config, pls help!!!

Thanks.....

Then, if I line my laser up with a grout line on the left wall and across the door to the other side of the door the lines match perfectly. That one tile where I had to cut 15mm off is the ONLY one that suddenly causes hassles. All the lines run true from left to right, all around the room up and down and side to side. I checked it myself, a laser level don't lie.

 

[DHTiling]

Thats the one he had to cut to get in andy...read my good man read his post..:lol:

 

[Andy Tiler]

 

[Gazzer]

Sorry mate but there is only one way to sort it and thats to find out where you have run out of level and redo it.
That cut that you say is hardly noticable well.....sorry again but a blind man on a galloping horse could see that from 10 miles away. I am sure buider and everyone else will notice.
Do yourself a favour and sort it properly....this is the start of you career, dont start by getting a bad rep.
As for the floor...........sorry again looks awful to me.

 

[DHTiling]

I checked it myself, a laser level don't lie

Is it a self levelling laser or one you level yourself..?

 

[Gazzer]

Lol, laser levels do lie...if its been dropped at some point it will need recalibrating. Laser levels are good but not fool proof. Get a good level and treat it well.

 

[Gazzer]

is it my eyes are is the row of tiles to the right of the door and to the left of the vertical mosaic ( where that cut tile is) out of level ?

 

[tileboy]

Hey? Not to be funny mate but you think the shower floor looks awful? Oh come on dude...Where's your creativity? What would you have done? Just tile straight mosaic? The entrance of the shower once the glass is in now has an invitation to enter. I think it looks fantastic. Anyway....You're a trained eye my friend, it's obvious you will notice it. Anyone else won't. You have years of experience I'm assuming so give the untrained eye the benefit of the doubt. The architect was there yesterday and she didn't notice anything!!! I'm not one to pull the wool over people's eyes....I just honestly don't see a way out of this other than redoing the whole bloody room. Think about it carefully, it's not possible to just do that piece over. I'd have to lift the entire left hand side of the room 15mm which I can't do...I'm not going to redo the whole left hand side of the room, logistically it's not possible.

Am I wrong here guys? am I wrong in my thinking that it's not just as simple as redoing that one section.....cuz from my point of view it's WAY more complicated than that!!!

 

[tileboy]

Is it a self levelling laser or one you level yourself..?

It's a self levelling laser Dave....It's a Stabila LAX50

 

[enduro]

Hi guys...

I'm hoping someone can shed light on my little screw up. Right so been busy on a job for a whole heap of days...Yeah ok so I'm slow, I must be the slowest tiler on planet earth but I'm bloody neat so it's ok!!! I think it may have something to do with my training because I just don't seem to be able to tile any faster no matter what I do...

The problem slapped me in the face today...Please look at Picture A. This is the door frame around which I have tiled. The tiles are 150mm x 600mm. I tiled from the left side of the room around the top of the door (follow the red arrows) up to the tile with the red "X" on it. Then I carried on from the other side of the room till I met back to that same point. The first three tiles are 300mm x 600mm then a border right around the room then the 150mm x 600mm to the roof. The first three tiles are on the same datum line ALL AROUND THE ROOM, so it makes NO SENSE that what I'm about to explain happened.

The first three tiles from the floor up (as I said) are running the same datum line, they're PERFECTLY level so if I was to switch on my laser light and stream a line (which I did) on the TOP EDGE of the first three tiles across the room then you will see that right around the entire bathroom the line follows perfectly which means that the top edge of the first three are at exactly the same level right around the room.

Spacers are 3mm...

On top of the edge of the first three tiles comes a 3mm spacer, then a border. On top of the border comes another 3mm spacer then the 150mm x 600mm starts. So safe to say I have the same level right across the room.

Now look at picture B. See the red X ? Well, it was there that I tiled up to then stopped. I carried on tiling around the other side of the room till I got back to that point. I tiled from the floor up to where the red X is, because everything is level (I made it so) there's no reason why the tile directly under the red X should not fit. It should fit right? Thats what I though, because all my lines asre straight. Everything is perfectly level, so says my laser and my spirit level. The truth, however, is that when I reached the point of inserting the tile under the red X it didn't fit and by a WHOLE BUNCH. It was out by something like 15mm maybe more. WOW, I have NO IDEA how that happened. Everything else in the room is in proportion and fits...This one tile now suddenly is out and by a bloody long margin too!!! So, obviously I couldn't rearrange the whole room cuz the tiles are fixed now so the only logical answer was to cut the 15mm or what ever it was off of the top of the tile and fix it in there anyway. It's such a little actually off the whole tile that if you stand in front of it you can barely notice that the tile isn't the same size as the others. If you look very close, or if you have a very good eye you will pick it up but I can almost guarentee you the owner won't spot what has happened.

Still with picture B, now that I've fixed that tile in anyway....turns out that to the tope right of the room close to the roof it has somehow thrown my grout lines out by that 15mm. On pic B see the red circles? Notice how they don't align AT ALL!!! In fact, rather look at picture C....It gives a closer view of how the lines are thrown out now in relation to the red X tile. Look at the lines going down the wall and you'll see eventually (after 3 or so tiles) the lines restore themselves and all is as it should be.

I am SO CONFUSED as to how and why this happened. I did everything by the book....Now, you don't notice the cut tile in the middle of the lot but by the roof there's a clear mismatch....I'm hoping to GOD that the owner doesn't notice, there's alot of the same colour in the room and it's very hard to spot mistakes cuz everything sort of swims into each other. Where the roof is, the builder said I should leave a small gap as he is going to install a sizeable cornice there so hence the gap between the last tile and the roof. In pic C, where the mosaic strip is you will notice that there is a clear mismatch between the tile egde and the mosaic strip (this is to be covered by the cornice so that will disappear...

PLEASE can one of you bright lads explain WTF went wrong. I susupect its something I did when I tiled around the door. You know when you tile around a window and the lines don't match up when you get around the window? I think it's maybe that....but I don't know what to call it firstly and I have even less of an idea of how to explain my way out of this. If she doesn't notice then cool but between her, the builder and the architect someone is gonna see it. I have to be able to explain what went wrong and kinda in a way that makes it sound as if it aint really my fault. Ha ha...I'm not a chance taker and I feel worse than bad for it having turned out this way but it's kind of way too late to do anything about it so I had to improvise.

Then, one thing I do feel very happy about is the shower tray which I did using Travertine mosaics. The owner had no idea really what she wanted so I used my initiative and came up with something on my own. Please refer to picture D to see what I ended up doing with the shower floor, I think it looks lovely....Please comment if you can, but be nice please cuz I'm feeling a bit like a tiler's *** today.

In advance lads, thank you VERY MUCH for any help....last thought would be just to ask (again) if anyone can suggest something to help me explain my way out of this one!!!

Many many thanks....
Tileboy )

On picture B, you haven't by mistake put a tile in that's had a bit cut off it by mistake? So its dropped the row down.

 

[stevee]

i dont trust lasers too much ,was a groundworker for over 20 years, as said by oli ,might of had a knock ,u cant beat a good straight edge and bubble,rip em off bud before u look like a right plonker, i mean that in a nice way mate ,good luck ,steve

 

[tileboy]

Sir Ramic....Yes mate, it obviously is out. That's when I noticed it. If you picture a parallelogram or sorta like a twisted square, thats whats happened to the room!!! I can't change the one side without if affecting rest of the room. Or am I wrong?

 

[Gazzer]

You could be right but without actually being on the job its hard to say what is wrong. Photos dont tell the whole story. A picture taken at a slight angle can make things look wrong.
I really hope that no one picks you up on this but if they dont i would count yourself very fortunate. The question is , can you live with it ?
Things i can see from the shower floor pic, up the wall a slither cut...again i cant see the rest of the room but i am only working here with a few pics. Against the wall the mosaic is a tapering cut and as for your design/angle i personally may have tiled the whole shower floor at an angle.
To me it looks odd but i a not the client and i am not paying.

 

[CDS]

No worries mate - pleased to try and help - On my third cuppa now - think I'd best turn to the vino soon or I'll be climbing walls!!

Lazer levels - Mines in the bin and has been for some time, kept making mistakes with it and too easy to knock it... spent more time releveling the level than tiling!!

New levels - If you haven't checked they're accurrate don't trust them!

If everything lines up left to right until you get to the tile you had to cut then you've def lost it over the door for whatever reason. You can sort this out by replacing half dozen tiles - Bottom line is its your reputation at stake so you need to get it sorted or you won't have to worry about doing the second bathroom - you won't be there!

Assumming you start the second bathroom try screwing baton to walls when you've set-out. (put 12 mm holes in them every 3 feet and use penny washers so you can adjust them.) Once they're up and you've got it all level you can pack the lazer level back in the van!!!

 

[tileboy]

Ok guys....seems I have to run through this so you guys see what I see:

1. My laser is fine, it's had no knocks. I don't use it as a way to find my lines, I use it
as a confirmation that my lines are straight. I only ever use a spirit level to set out
my room.

2. If I cast my laser line from left of the room, to the right of the room it gives me a
perfectly straight line and level too because the laser is self levelling. SO if from the
left to the right the grout lines match (upto the cut tile) then it must mean that
above the cut tile is where I lost the 15mm.

3. How can I redo it? THINK CAREFULLY guys...If I remove the tiles above the cut
piece there's going to be 15mm gap SOMEWHERE else, you see? Even if I replace
the cut piece with a non cut piece, it's still going to lift the tiles above it by 15mm
which means on the left side of the door the tiles will ALL have to lift by 15mm?
Please tell me you're getting what I'm saying here?

I'm not as daft as I may seem...If there was an easy way out I'd have figured it out already, but there isn't. I've lost 15mm somewhere and the only way to fix it would be to straighten the now skewed room which means redoing the entire bloody room.

Now, is anyone in agreement with me here. To be honest all I'm getting is everything I've already considered, I'd appreciate some positive feedback not doom and gloom. I know I've screwed up, but it feels as if one of two of you are giving me hell for it which I really don't think is necessary I feel bad enough as it is...be nice lads!!!

 

[Daveyboy]

There's a saying something like you have to be cruel to be kind.....:yikes::yikes::yikes: If any of my lads did tiling like that, I would turn them into Eunuchs (a male without any testicles for those who don't know) within minutes.

Tileboy... your'e gonna have to bite the bullet and be prepared to strip tiles off one or more walls..

First, choose a wall which is horizontally and vertically level (with luck there will be one and it will be a long wall) but use a level and NOT a lazer level. Check your levels are actually level. Hold it horizontally against a wall and draw a line, then turn the level round and draw another line. Then repeat vertically to test the vertical bubble. If the lines line up, the level is good, if not throw it away..

Second, select a horizontal grout line low down and draw a horizontal level line across the adjoining walls, again, using a level and NOT a lazer level, then a horizontal level line across the remaining wall but this time draw it from each end so that the last wall will either have one horizontal level line or two.

Third, if the horizontal lines line up, you know you have lost 15mm as you have tiled up. Then it is a process of checking each horizontal grout line to see where you messed up. Once you find that point, you can strip the tiles off as many walls as necessary and rectify your mistake.

Fourth, if they don't line up, you will be able to easily see on which wall or walls where you went wrong right from the start. Once you find that point, you can strip the tiles off that wall or walls and rectify your mistake.

So hopefully, that will sort out the wall tiles....

As to the mosaics, 100% awful...rip them up and lay them in the same direction and line them up with the mosaics going up the wall...

Finally, don't beat yourself up too much about this..everyone makes mistakes, but the successful tilers are those prepared to admit it to their clients, then say how they are going to put it right at no extra cost to the client...In your case. the client, builder, architect, etc will respect you for your honesty and commitment and once put right, will feel confident enough to use you on other jobs..

 

[tileboy]

You could be right but without actually being on the job its hard to say what is wrong. Photos dont tell the whole story. A picture taken at a slight angle can make things look wrong.
I really hope that no one picks you up on this but if they dont i would count yourself very fortunate. The question is , can you live with it ?
Things i can see from the shower floor pic, up the wall a slither cut...again i cant see the rest of the room but i am only working here with a few pics. Against the wall the mosaic is a tapering cut and as for your design/angle i personally may have tiled the whole shower floor at an angle.
To me it looks odd but i a not the client and i am not paying.

Yeah I can see how some of you guys are not getting the feel of the room from the pics. Thats why I think you guys don't see it as I see it.

I hope too they don't pick me up on it but I don't see how that will be...eventually it will be spotted!!!

I don't want to live with it I want things to be str8 but I don't know how to fix this for one and for two how to avoid this from happening again!!!

The slither cut is an unfortunate side effect of having a full tile at the room's focal point. The focal point of the room as you walk in based on the swing of the door is the corner in front of the shower. I was taught to always have a full tile coming out from a corner where your focal point is. I could have had a half tile cut from the corner resulting in another half tile cut where the slither is but I think that would look ugly because the slither is hidden as you don't see it when you enter the room and if I were to have a half tile coming out from the corner then that would mess with the window because not only is the corner the focal point, it's where the window is too....So a slither I made it, I went for the best possible look based on focal points and what I'd rather have in a bathroom. The client knows nothing about tiling and neither does the architect so my judegment has to suffice. I know slithers are crappy by nature but if you end up with a hideous focal point just to avoid a slither then I think one is making too much of a small thing.

Anyway, I think we're digressing a tad.

The point for me now, is to figure out what I did wrong and how to avoid it in the next bathroom I do!!! Cuz I honestly don't see a way to fix this without redoing way more than I even have tiles for!!!

 

[DHTiling]

TB..sorry if you have recieved some harsh comments....our members are passionate about tiling works...:smilewinkgrin:...

You have 2 choices really....

1 : leave it be and pray it is not picked up by the customer.

2 : Bite the bullet and re-do the door wall.....you can straighten it up by creating a line from left to right and stick to it....the level might be out but the lines will match....

Then next time make sure you work in rows and keep checking all corners are lining up as you go.......

Shower tray....mmmmmmm not my cup of tea done that way but being creative is a good thing.....this will be a learning curve for you....maybe a head ache of a curve but a good one....

thanks for the pics and good luck which ever way you go.....




p.s...members please try and be diplomatic with replys.....thank you....as we do pride in being friendly..