problems with 600x600

[newmantiling]

no picks of cracked adh very fine but visable leads me to think about underfloor been put on to hot to quick

 

[kilty55]

i used this addy a while ago and thought it was fantastic,havent used for 2 years so cant comment on recent batches

 

[deankyall]

just a little addition to this,
at a fairly recent adhesive companys trade evening,when asked by quite a few tilers about polished porcelain tiles debonding from adhesive,their answer was ,that the companies know that a problem exists with adhesive not acheiving a strong bond with the tiles ,due to the density of the porcelain,and the fact that the adhesive bonds to the primary surface ,ie the screed,so when you lift it wet,it seems fine ,next day lift it and tile is clean,as the screed has sucked in the moisture,that is what they told us.!!!!!
ive been thinking this for yrs

 

[jay]

just a little addition to this,
at a fairly recent adhesive companys trade evening,when asked by quite a few tilers about polished porcelain tiles debonding from adhesive,their answer was ,that the companies know that a problem exists with adhesive not acheiving a strong bond with the tiles ,due to the density of the porcelain,and the fact that the adhesive bonds to the primary surface ,ie the screed,so when you lift it wet,it seems fine ,next day lift it and tile is clean,as the screed has sucked in the moisture,that is what they told us.!!!!!
ive been thinking this for yrs

priming the screed or concrete would help

 

[deankyall]

yep thats with priming,just knock a tile back up when its dry couple days later,ive seen it it dosent stick to the back,i started a thread on this about 8 months ago after asking lots of tilers in my area ,and almost to a man they had experienced the same thing?????,seems wierd that adhesive companys know there is a prob,,but keep qiuet!!

priming the screed or concrete would help

 

[bobbynz]

yep thats with priming,just knock a tile back up when its dry couple days later,ive seen it it dosent stick to the back,i started a thread on this about 8 months ago after asking lots of tilers in my area ,and almost to a man they had experienced the same thing?????,seems wierd that adhesive companys know there is a prob,,but keep qiuet!!

Is it happening even with back skimming??

 

[jay]

yep thats with priming,just knock a tile back up when its dry couple days later,ive seen it it dosent stick to the back,i started a thread on this about 8 months ago after asking lots of tilers in my area ,and almost to a man they had experienced the same thing?????,seems wierd that adhesive companys know there is a prob,,but keep qiuet!!

if the adh is sticking to the substrate the primer has worked
as bobbynz asked were they back skimmed

adh takes more than 2 days to reach full strength more like 20 days

the conditions also come into play was adh skimming and were tiles twisted in or just sat

the adh company is not going to admit there is a problem it wouldn't be in there best interest

 

[bobbynz]

Your right Jay, but it would be in their interest to either withdraw the failed product or change the remedy?.
And at least refute the claims and prove everyone wrong.
Personally, I think that the new adh we use these days really need to be mixed, and used closely according to the manufacturers instructions. I think it would be a mistake to assume that we can use todays adh. the same way it's always used.
If this is a recurring problem then surely someone must know of the outcome. Adh. replaced by manufturer? Tiler has to rip up and start again? Tiler taken adh. man. to court?
has anyone else had personal experience of this problem? a few more examples of this would warrant an investigation, dont you think?

 

[jay]

Yes need more info pics facts .There are a lot of factors to take into consideration before the adh can be outright blamed and there are a lot of ways the manufacture can weasel out of taking blame

 

[Perry]

Jay i use this adhesive all the time have done since it was made i always skim the backs of all my tiles never had one problem and i pay twice as much for this adhesive than spf i think it better than sliced bread never have i used or seen a better adhesive i have fixed thousands of mtrs with it

 

[jay]

Jay i use this adhesive all the time have done since it was made i always skim the backs of all my tiles never had one problem and i pay twice as much for this adhesive than spf i think it better than sliced bread never have i used or seen a better adhesive i have fixed thousands of mtrs with it

Have noticed this over time . and have noticed you have had no issues ,it may come down to user error .its hard to believe a adh that is skimmed on the back of a tile (mainly porc) can release without a trace ,There was a guy from OZ who had the same probs but never got to the bottom of it did try tho (cant think of his name at present)only thing that would explain is the tile being water logged when fixing

 

[deankyall]

Maybe its something to do with underfloor heating ,havent heard of too many probs,when that's not been involved ,just a thought,also called a couple of tilers I know earlier,they don't back skim,just use solid bed towel,,I remember,using ceramics,and vitrified tiles that were not flat backed,and never ever back skimmed.

 

[deankyall]

also just read quite a bit of info online about porcelain tiles,tried to copy and paste but didnt work do a search and youll find quite a bit of info,

anyway it bought to mind what the bostik rep said, that due to the nature of porcelain being almost impervious,that the normal mechanical bond cannot take place,so the bond strength is not as it should be ,as it is when the process takes place with ceramics, maybe when you combine this with the movement caused by heating temperatures and warmth rising coupled with a weak bond causes the problems,now im not saying this is true,just a thought,but i cant see any company admitting it to the masses.

 

[DHTiling]

I thought it was common knowledge that a fully vitrified tile does not key adhesive like a normal ceramic biscuit... but the profiling on a vitrified t ile does allow a certain key to the adhesive as long as back skimming is done to aid adhesion to the bed but i agree that when force is applied to a vitrified tile edge on, say like a hammer bolster then they can pop off clean as a whistle.. but as long as BS5385 is followed regarding expansion joints and perimeter joints then there will not be sufficient force to de-bond..

i had this conversation with my mapei rep..

 

[Ian]

This is why back skimming is so, so important. Far too many tilers not doing it.