Shower problem

[Ian]

Dscoll, have a read of this, http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-adhesive-grout-substrate-preparation/2511-p-v-versus-primers.html , this should give you all the answers you need with regards to the PVA queries and also make it clearer why PVA has no place in a pro tilers world. I have just taken the time to read through this whole thread and can see that you are clearly frustrated, but all the advice given is accurate and best practice from a group of tilers who are among the best in this country.

 

[Rich]

Nobody has intended to be rude. You must appreciate that we give up a lot of free time to advise people on their tiling, it is very hard when we are not listened to. I couldnt possible count the amount of times that I have heard "my builder says it will work".

As Kilty (Kitty) has said, maybe you are insured? Those tiles MUST be taken off, the substrate must be well preped and then the it can be re tiled by a reall tiler. There is NO other way that those tiles can be fixed without them failing again.

Kilty has not tried pouring PVA because he is an expert tiler, he is not a builder and he is not a moron.

 

[Del W]

The advice you are being given is all good in one way or another.Please take it.There is no quick fix.If you don't it will bite you in the ar*e in the future.

 

[kilty55]

Kilty, I presume you have never tried this, therefore you cannot be sure it will not work. The builder tells me he has done this a couple of times and it has worked fine. I have known the builder as a friend for over 10 years, he is not a liar or a cowboy.

why are you on here asking for advice if you think the builder is correct in his idea of pouring pva down the back of the tiled area?

good bye dscoll and good luck with your tiling

and you are correct with 1 thing,i have never tried pouring a bottle of pva down my tiles and i never intend to:smilewinkgrin:

 

[dscoll]

Brian - This link concerns PVA as a primer. Im proposing to use PVA as a glue, not a primer.Also , im proposing to use it in an area outside the shower, where it won't get wet, so mit should not return to its liquid state..

Dscoll, have a read of this, http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-adhesive-grout-substrate-preparation/2511-p-v-versus-primers.html , this should give you all the answers you need with regards to the PVA queries and also make it clearer why PVA has no place in a pro tilers world. I have just taken the time to read through this whole thread and can see that you are clearly frustrated, but all the advice given is accurate and best practice from a group of tilers who are among the best in this country.

 

[dscoll]

Kilty It's obvious that the PVA idea is not a professional solution so that is why I posted the question ,to see if I could get an better alternative. The problem seems to be that since I suggested this idea it as got everyones back up, so all I have had in the form of replies is ridicule.

why are you on here asking for advice if you think the builder is correct in his idea of pouring pva down the back of the tiled area?

good bye dscoll and good luck with your tiling

and you are correct with 1 thing,i have never tried pouring a bottle of pva down my tiles and i never intend to:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Brinkley]

the problen is dscoll if the tiles have blown(come away from the wall ) then the problem is the wall no one is ridiculing its just the suggested method your builder has of resolving the problem IT WONT WORK it might for the first day or 2 but seriously its not a long term solution you say the tiler washed his hands of it any decent and respectable tilers or maybe just me would fix their work with no fuss thankfilly ihavent had aby call backs in 13 years because iprepare and use quality adhesives and grout preparation is key pva is for builders

 

[dscoll]

Dylante. I wrote to the insurance company. Im covered for the ceiling as it's "water damage" but im not covered for the bathroom because it was "incorrectly installed". I have listened to what you have said, but i can't afford the solution you propose. I would love to get the whole bathroom retiled, but i simply don't have the money.

Nobody has intended to be rude. You must appreciate that we give up a lot of free time to advise people on their tiling, it is very hard when we are not listened to. I couldnt possible count the amount of times that I have heard "my builder says it will work".

As Kilty (Kitty) has said, maybe you are insured? Those tiles MUST be taken off, the substrate must be well preped and then the it can be re tiled by a reall tiler. There is NO other way that those tiles can be fixed without them failing again.

Kilty has not tried pouring PVA because he is an expert tiler, he is not a builder and he is not a moron.

 

[Ian]

Using pva as a glue on something as heavy as a tile is crazy. If you think about it logically there is very little that will be holding the tile to the wall, from a safety and professional point of view I, and everyone else who has taken the time to post, will strongly advise against it. If you insist on putting the old tiles back, then clean the old adhesive off by soaking them in warm water (if tubbed adhesive has been used) then scrape it off when soft or use a grinder (if cement based adhesive has been used) to get the old adhesive off. Then use a good cement base adhesive to re fix your tiles.

 

[andy8758]

dscoll, there is an option to tile a smaller area, and discard any tiles damaged as they are being cleaned up to re-tile. For example, you mention that tiles are not full ceiling height all the way round - drop the height of the tiles by one row or two.

I accept you cannot afford to re-tile, so if money is a problem, use your own time to rectify the problem. And yes it will be a long and frustrating piece of work.

The tiler employed cannot be a pro if he is fixing wall tiles using 10mm thickness of adhesive. This does not help the tiles stay on the wall.

If sticking tiles on a wall with pva was a serious option - then we would all be using pva instead of the tile adhesive.

Accept this as a very serious exercise in learning to find the right tradesman to do the right job.

Finally a word on your friendly builder. It is great to see him accepting some responsibility and offering to rectify the problem caused by the tiler. However, would you ask him to fit a new gas pipe or re-wire your consumer unit? If the answer is no, then consider that the tilers professional advice might be right, even though they contradict the builders opinion/suggestion.

 

[dscoll]

Brian. I have been soaking 3 tiles in water, as a test, for 2 weeks to try to remove the adhesive. It hasn't softened one bit, im told it is waterproof adhesive so this is not that suprising. I don't have a grinder. If the PVA doesn't work i may get one, but this is the last option as im sure i'll chip some tiles in the process, plus its a bit dangerous.

Using pva as a glue on something as heavy as a tile is crazy. If you think about it logically there is very little that will be holding the tile to the wall, from a safety and professional point of view I, and everyone else who has taken the time to post, will strongly advise against it. If you insist on putting the old tiles back, then clean the old adhesive off by soaking them in warm water (if tubbed adhesive has been used) then scrape it off when soft or use a grinder (if cement based adhesive has been used) to get the old adhesive off. Then use a good cement base adhesive to re fix your tiles.

 

[dscoll]

Andy. When the original job was done I was told that the walls were not square, so the tiles were put on at varying thickness to fix that. Im not saying PVA is better than tile adhesive but it's the only suggestion i have so far so it's worth a try. ps the builder has done loads of work for me, including rewiring (but no gas pipes).

dscoll, there is an option to tile a smaller area, and discard any tiles damaged as they are being cleaned up to re-tile. For example, you mention that tiles are not full ceiling height all the way round - drop the height of the tiles by one row or two.

I accept you cannot afford to re-tile, so if money is a problem, use your own time to rectify the problem. And yes it will be a long and frustrating piece of work.

The tiler employed cannot be a pro if he is fixing wall tiles using 10mm thickness of adhesive. This does not help the tiles stay on the wall.

If sticking tiles on a wall with pva was a serious option - then we would all be using pva instead of the tile adhesive.

Accept this as a very serious exercise in learning to find the right tradesman to do the right job.

Finally a word on your friendly builder. It is great to see him accepting some responsibility and offering to rectify the problem caused by the tiler. However, would you ask him to fit a new gas pipe or re-wire your consumer unit? If the answer is no, then consider that the tilers professional advice might be right, even though they contradict the builders opinion/suggestion.

 

[devonmark]

Dylante. I wrote to the insurance company. Im covered for the ceiling as it's "water damage" but im not covered for the bathroom because it was "incorrectly installed". I have listened to what you have said, but i can't afford the solution you propose. I would love to get the whole bathroom retiled, but i simply don't have the money.

there you go.....you've said it yourself "it was incorrectly installed" .

 

[Ian]

Brian. I have been soaking 3 tiles in water, as a test, for 2 weeks to try to remove the adhesive. It hasn't softened one bit, im told it is waterproof adhesive so this is not that suprising. I don't have a grinder. If the PVA doesn't work i may get one, but this is the last option as im sure i'll chip some tiles in the process, plus its a bit dangerous.

Using a grinder is dangerous if not used correctly but, using pva to stick tiles to a wall is about 10 times more dangerous because you have no idea how long they will stay there before they fall off, on you or someone else.

 

[Rich]

Have you contacted the tiler? This needs to be put right (PVA will not make it right).

The builder may well be the nicest bloke in the world but (most) builders have no clue about tiling, that is why they get pros in. This builder has not got the first clue what he is doing just like I wouldnt have the first clue how to build a house. If he got a pro in the first place, he should get the advise of a real pro now and foot the bill for putting it right. Clearly he doesnt want to pay for that (who would) so he is going to tell you that he can fix it him self so that he can walk away.

We are not telling you all this for a laugh, this is the best advise you will find anywhere and its free!! There is no way of sorting out these tiles with out taking them off and the builder should be paying the bill for that IMO.