Small Holes in Top of Replica Flagstones

[AndyH747]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on a problem with some replica flagstones installed in our new kitchen. We purchased the flagstones from this company who are local to us:
Farmhouse Flagstones suppliers of handcrafted traditional flagstones, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.
They are a replica limestone flagstone made from concrete with a resin top to resemble authentic flagstones.
After they were laid we starting noticing small holes opening up on the surface of the flagstones. I knew to expect small pin holes but some of these are getting quite large (1-2mm) in diameter and are increasing in number. On closer inspection, if you tap around the holes, you can see the resin falling away inside. This suggests that the resin top has air bubbles which are now showing with traffic moving on the floor surface and breaking the surface of each bubble.
My question is whether these holes are normal for this type of flagstone, how much worse should it get and why it isn't evident on all the flagstones. Some of the flagstones have none while others have many.
Any advice would be much appreciated before I take further action. The company concerned have refused to examine the floor and claim air bubbles are perfectly normal and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

[nybor62]

to be honest i dont no about this product , and would advise that the supplier should at least take a look and give advise,
the flags in question should maybe be removed and replaced at the comps exspense

 

[nybor62]

any pics please

 

[AndyH747]

any pics please

Will try and post some when I get a chance. The company refuses to even look at the floor so getting them out isn't an option. I'm sending them a letter stating my concerns and have also advised Trading Standards. However it would be good to know from others whether this is normal or a problem during manufacture.

 

[AndyH747]

OK have uploaded four photos. Hope they are clear enough and show the problem.
Any thoughts on this now you can see the issue?

 

[White Room]

Pockets of air in the moulding process....

 

[AndyH747]

Pockets of air in the moulding process....

Thats what I suspected. Is it acceptable though? Do I have a case to ask for remedial work/replacement or is this normal in this type of flagstone?

 

[White Room]

You could give them a call and see what responce you get and go from there...

 

[Dan]

I'd inspect the display too. If that didn't have holes in, I'd not accept holes in my batch. If it did, then perhaps it is just the range in general. (Surely not though?)

 

[AndyH747]

You could give them a call and see what responce you get and go from there...

I've already asked them to come and inspect the floor but they have refused to come out. They claim the air bubbles are normal and there's nothing they can do about them.

 

[Mike Mike]

At least they haven't gone rusty, unlike someone's very expensive limestone.... :mad2:

 

[White Room]

Be honest not sure where to go from here but it dos'nt look right after a short period of time....

 

[AndyH747]

What I would need to take the matter further is an independent report on the floor so I have proof its a defect. Could anyone recommend someone in my area (near Gloucester) that could carry this out? Obviously I would pay for the inspection and report. I would then claim this back from the retailer should the report find an inherent defect.

 

[DHTiling]

Can't beat proper REAL stone... leave the imitation stuff in the skip..


to reply to the OP... not heard of this type before.. doesn't look good either way... have you expressed your concerns to the supplier.

 

[AndyH747]

Can't beat proper REAL stone... leave the imitation stuff in the skip..


to reply to the OP... not heard of this type before.. doesn't look good either way... have you expressed your concerns to the supplier.

See my previous posts! Have informed them several times.

 

[DHTiling]

Sorry i just scanned through...


any joy then..?

 

[AndyH747]

Sorry i just scanned through...


any joy then..?

Like I've already said, they refuse to examine the floor, have said air bubbles are normal and there's nothing they can do/are prepared to do about it.

Hence my request for someone to carry out an independent report so I can take further action.

 

[DHTiling]

Never!!!, that is shocking....

I hope you get some satisfaction..

 

[Al@Lifetiles]

If "they" are saying air bubbles are normal then maybe "they" should have pointed this out before you bought this stuff.
Either way you are left with a floor that doesnt look how you wanted.
My only positive contribution to this would be to suggest a resin filler to match replica.

 

[AndyH747]

If "they" are saying air bubbles are normal then maybe "they" should have pointed this out before you bought this stuff.
Either way you are left with a floor that doesnt look how you wanted.
My only positive contribution to this would be to suggest a resin filler to match replica.

They didn't point it out and we didn't notice in the showroom. However I didn't get down on my hands and knees to examine them!

Where would I get the resin to fill the holes?

 

[White Room]

These might be worth a call Concrex Epoxy Resin Repairs - Watco Repair Products

 

[Al@Lifetiles]

Trimline Innovation - Home
This is where i get my various stone resins from.
They come in White, Straw etc. these can be mixed to get a match to the flags.
They come with an hardener.
With marble these resins are allowed to cure then polished back. Cant say ive ever come across these replicas though.
Trying to fill the holes may negate any chance you had of having the whole thing replaced though. Also it may not polish back brilliantly but i have no other suggestions.
Good luck.

 

[Pebbs]

This is totally unacceptable, even if the holes are resin filled, there could be more popping up in the future. Ive never had a composite or replica floor with this type of problems. The first step is to send a letter, stating that you were never informed of such 'occurrences' and they should spring into action, when you write these little words....

You are more than welcome to inspect the said floor supplied by your company, and rectify the defects accordingly, and bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. However should you not be attending or contacting me to discuss this, then I have to inform you I will be taking legal action.

Send the letter recorded post, please by law they have to be given a chance to rectify the problem. Also did you pay by credit card? you have a legal right to dispute the payment for substandard goods supplied.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Pebbs

 

[AndyH747]

This is totally unacceptable, even if the holes are resin filled, there could be more popping up in the future. Ive never had a composite or replica floor with this type of problems. The first step is to send a letter, stating that you were never informed of such 'occurrences' and they should spring into action, when you write these little words....

You are more than welcome to inspect the said floor supplied by your company, and rectify the defects accordingly, and bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. However should you not be attending or contacting me to discuss this, then I have to inform you I will be taking legal action.

Send the letter recorded post, please by law they have to be given a chance to rectify the problem. Also did you pay by credit card? you have a legal right to dispute the payment for substandard goods supplied.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Pebbs

Many thanks for the reply and information. I was intending to write a letter giving them a chance to rectify. I thought it would add more weight to my argument if I had a professional independent report outlining the problem.

Unfortunately we didn't pay by CC. Otherwise I'd have gone straight for Consumer Credit Act protection.

It's extremely annoying as we've spent a lot of money on the kitchen and this is our first new build. We've spent a lot of time getting everything right and apart from the floor, the kitchen is pretty much perfect. It's enough to make you sick really and this type of customer service is just appalling. I hope others stay well clear of this company. I've linked to their website in my first post.

 

[AndyH747]

Just an update and some further advice if possible.

We've now sent two letters to the company and didn't get a response to the first. In the second letter I outlined that we would be taking legal action. The proprietor of Farmhouse Flagstones has responded with a very emotional email stating that his flagstones are of the highest quality and that the air holes are completely normal. We've had someone independent go to his showroom and examine the displays. There is evidence of small air holes in the flagstones but they are very small. Ours are large, and growing in number and size as foot traffic proceeds over the floor. We also have some stones with over twenty individual holes in the surface.

He has claimed his flagstones are manufactured to British standards and were vibrated on a bed for the minimum recommended time of 60secs. He also states that it is impossible to remove all air from any precast product and that these air holes are normal. Has anyone got any definitive information on what BS standards would apply here?

We are now formulating a case to take to the small claims court but having factual information on any standards that these flagstones should meet would be helpful.

He is still refusing to even examine the floor even though his worksop is only 15 minutes away!

 

[AndyH747]

After the threat of legal action the supplier is now willing to replace the defective flagstones and pay for the labour. However he is now arguing over the cost of the labour from our tiler. We need to replace 18 flagstones in a kitchen. The old flagstones will have to be carefully removed and the area cleaned. The replacements then have to be sealed on bottom and sides before laying. After laying they need to be sealed on top and then grouted. Finally another coat of seal needs applied after the grout is dry. We will also need the old flagstones removed from site and disposed of. The kitchen area will probably be unusable while the work is carried out and the area will need to be protected with dust sheets.

For all the above work, what would a professional tiler charge on average and how long would you expect the work to take? This is in the Gloucester area.

Thanks for any replies.

 

[White Room]

We prefer no pricing in the open forum but members please PM AndyH747 with any advise on any rates/prices.

 

[Dan]

Hi Andy,

I'd let the supplier supply the labour, materials and obviously the stones and let them do it fully so that if there are future problems, they then can't come back and blame the tiler you chose etc.

Also then it wouldn't matter what the costs are involved as he'd just foot the bill directly.

 

[AndyH747]

Hi Andy,

I'd let the supplier supply the labour, materials and obviously the stones and let them do it fully so that if there are future problems, they then can't come back and blame the tiler you chose etc.

Also then it wouldn't matter what the costs are involved as he'd just foot the bill directly.

Thanks for the reply.

The problem is we don't trust him to have the job completed properly. He has argued throughout the whole process and still refuses to acknowledge any fault on his part. Trusting him or someone he appoints to complete the work satisfactorily is just not going to happen.
The other problem would be if the job isn't completed properly, which is highly likely, we'd be back in the same boat trying to get recompense. At least by having a trusted tiler who has worked for us before doing the job we can be sure it will be done correctly.

Trust me, after the experience we've had, you wouldn't trust this company either!

I'd really appreciate anyone sending me a PM with just a rough estimate of the average costs in completing the work mentioned above. I will get other quotes but it's always good to have an average to work from.