Tubbed adhesive

[Stef]

Dave i know what you mean but if we are on site "labour only" then we can only use what is supplied, its hard enough trying to get them to buy bal white star or mapei D2. dont get me wrong more & more companys are starting to realise that its more than just sticking tiles to a wall!!! as the pictures above, we had tiled the garden flats at the site in east kilbride (about 50/60) showers & not one has failed, job done 5/6 years ago, these were the houses on the site & most of the showers have failed. As soon as you walk in the houses you can smell the dampness in the air. truly shocking!!!!

 

[DHTiling]

I am surprised they shell out for white star when bagged is cheaper and goes further... but as you say.. you are only sticking them on and supplying nothing..

 

[macten]

Used it for kitchen splashbacks. Flat walls, 10x10s then tubbed is ideal.
Won't use it for anything else though.

 

[garybadger]

So are we saying now that tubbed adhesive should be scrapped and therefore be going with the bagged stuff? The problem with that right now in the current climate is cost.
Everyone is cutting their costs but suppliers are being hit with an increase in costs by the couriers etc. I've noticed a difference in the prices I'm having to pay for stuff and indeed one of my suppliers is closing down at the end of the month.
Have went to the builders etc that I do work for and none of them are wanting to pay the extra ££.
I've personally never had a problem with using the tubbed adhesives and as long as you use the correct grout's and silicone. Everything should be fine!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The gist of the debate would appear to be to use the appropriate adhesive for the substrate type and the size of tile. Most manufacturers technical information advise that tubbed adhesives are to be restricted to tiles of 300x300mm and below.
As for cost - post26/Dave - I'd agree that it is cost effective to use the bagged adhesive, the only drawback is you have to buy mixing buckets.

 

[garybadger]

I'll give you an example then Timeless John. I'm doing House Building tiling work and I've been buying the same spec as Blue Star so i can tile the shower areas(all plasterboard) without having to worry about anything. Tiles I have been using range from 300 x 200, but now new ranges are coming in and I have a 300 x 450 tile which I will shortly be using and another which is a 500x333 or there abouts.. Now i can get 6-7m2 out of a tub which I've been getting at £6.75 plus V.A.T but I have went to the house builder and told them that with the new sizes of tiles we need a stronger adhesive to hold them up, bearing in mind the tiles are heavier. therefore the costs increase in materials. All to which I got veto'd. If you buy Mapei Keraquik at £13.95 plus V.A.T a bag and your getting 7m2 max. How is it cost effective to use the bagged adhesive?

 

[Ian]

If you are getting tubbed for 8 quid a tub then yes it is better value especially if you are getting that sort of meterage from it, personally I just prefer to use a cement based adhesive as if there are ever any instances where it needs to be built out a bit I don't have to wait days for it to dry.

 

[garybadger]

Bri, I think in an ideal world. Everyone would wish to use their preferred choice of adhesive. I prefer BAL but can't go anywhere near it at the moment with prices being cut and BAL being so expensive compared to everything else in the market.
I always check the walls on the new builds before tiling, and if there are big bumps in it, then its a trip to the site agent to get the joiners back into fix it before we tile, as last man frees all in this game. Doesn't always work but at least your back is covered anyway as you flagged it up before being told the old faithful JUST TILE IT. :lol:

 

[Ian]

If it's site work mate, then you do what you have to to get the work. If you're happy with the adhesive you are using and happy with the finished job then there isn't an issue. It's no good doubling the price of your materials if it means you won't be working, it'll just be in sat the back of your van then :lol:

 

[garybadger]

Tell me about it. No point in having that at all. Especially just now. Some tough times out there for people. I've been ok so her's hoping it continues.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Cost effective as the bagged adhesive allows you to grout sooner, which can often allow the job to be completed in 1 day.
I would price my work on achieving a greater metreage from a 22kg bag of Weber flexible fast set white than 7sq mts.
Your new tile sizes would carry no guarantee with a tubbed adhesive so in the event of a failure who would be held responsible.
In my humble opinion not all aspects of tiling should be defined by the cost and the responsibility for the correct procedures and good practice should be set in the standards an individual accepts.

 

[garybadger]

There is a lot of tiling in the houses so the tubbed adhesive is allowed to dry out before we grout anyway. Usually 1-2 days.
7m2 from a bag of Webber! What size trowel you using with that? I use the 6mm Raimondi trowel's for the walls and 10mm for the floors.
That's why I have went to them and asked the question, however I can't be going ahead with the work until they come round to my way of thinking. Ok in the short term but if something fails, then I can't be having it hanging over my head.
Unfortunately on building sites, it is all about cost, and if your spending xx amount on materials, theres really no point in doing the work, as time you add everything else in, your left with no money and no point in doing the work in the 1st place.

 

[Gazzer]

What do you do if the adhesive is in the written spec of the job. ?
I work for 2 major contractors tiling factory units, I have done so for many years and they actually spec tubbed adhesive, never had an issue with tiles falling off.
I recently tiled a bathroom , again for the council which had in the spec...tubbed adhesive !. 4 days after I finished the plumber broke 3 tiles because the numpty drillled with the hammmer action on. It took 2 hours for me to remove and replace the tiles, which completely destroyed the dabbed plasterboard. I redrilled the holes for the plumber this time !

Now this may seem as I am for the use of Tubbed adhesive, No not really. Bagged adhesive...good bagged adhesive has a better feel to me, it can be used to bed up bad walls, it works out cheaper in the long run, you can get fast or slow setting adhesives.
Maybe its because people are too lazy to mix their own adhesive up but if you are using a slow setting adhesive then you are only going to use 2 mixes a day on average I would have thought.

Adhesive manufacturer ready mixed adhesives because their is a market for them and all manufacturers want that share of the market. You will find that a lot of the manufacturers also make ready mixed adhesive and grout in one tub !!!......Its their business !

 

[Gazzer]

There is a lot of tiling in the houses so the tubbed adhesive is allowed to dry out before we grout anyway. Usually 1-2 days.
7m2 from a bag of Webber! What size trowel you using with that? I use the 6mm Raimondi trowel's for the walls and 10mm for the floors.
That's why I have went to them and asked the question, however I can't be going ahead with the work until they come round to my way of thinking. Ok in the short term but if something fails, then I can't be having it hanging over my head.
Unfortunately on building sites, it is all about cost, and if your spending xx amount on materials, theres really no point in doing the work, as time you add everything else in, your left with no money and no point in doing the work in the 1st place.

You use this phrase a lot ?? rather odd ! Is this a regional thing ? Just asking .

 

[garybadger]

Whats odd about that?

 

[Gazzer]

That's why I have went to them . ????

Just curious as it sounds odd to me ?

 

[garybadger]

What would you prefer I said then? Or rather what way would you have preferred it to be put?
Seems a bit of an odd statement from yourself when it's clear what is meant??

 

[Gazzer]

That's why I have gone to them, That's why I went to them, I went to them.

No matter, it was just a question.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

When I was in Edinburgh many years ago an AA breakdown mechanic kept calling me y'ken - it was only when I told him my name was John that the penny dropped and I did know!
My daughter never likes it when I call her 'Pet'.
Regional sayings define who you are.
Alreet hinney. (spell check is working overtime)

 

[Gazzer]

You use this phrase a lot ?? rather odd ! Is this a regional thing ? Just asking .

When I was in Edinburgh many years ago an AA breakdown mechanic kept calling me y'ken - it was only when I told him my name was John that the penny dropped and I did know!
My daughter never likes it when I call her 'Pet'.
Regional sayings define who you are.
Alreet hinney. (spell check is working overtime)

Which is what I was asking.

 

[Alan.P]

Grammatical error, we all make them

 

[Rolandk]

Just finishing off a floor and wall tiling job. Got great advice from here and used Keraquik throughout apart from tiling downstairs cloakroom walls where I switched to a Mapei tubbed addy part way through. This was because the job was a bit fiddly the addy was going off in the bucket before I'd used it all so wasting as much as I used. I decided it would be OK as the walls were flat new plasterboard and light tiles only 200 x 100 and it was Mapei and no hurry to grout them. After 2m of wall were done I came down next morning and decided I didn't like what I'd done! Only way I could get those tiles off was to rip down the plasterboard and start again!! So they were stuck OK! Like some of you say it's horses for courses. Wouldn't consider tubbed for floors and the combined addy/grout is just a bridge too far in my limited DIY experience!

Cheers,
Roland

 

[Daveshadowman]

I use Bal tub adhesive for most wall tiling and have never had a proplem,but i always use a powder for floors.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I use Bal tub adhesive for most wall tiling and have never had a proplem,but i always use a powder for floors.

I think you have explained what many feel and when tubbed adhesive was introduced in the early 70's Bal Tad was any excellent alternative in the market.
However as the trend for large format tiles has developed these manufacturers are putting limitations to the usage of their products.
Point of sale material from the adhesive manufacturers should be available in all outlets so the customer can check which adhesive is suitable for their tile choice.